![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 834 to 858 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Leighwit on April 19, 2001, at 13:32:10
In reply to Just my opinion, posted by Fish on April 19, 2001, at 10:48:54
Fish,
Effexor isn't an SSRI, and I think it's double jeopardy to compare one class of AD to another. To say that Effexor is a "stronger" (loosely paraphrasing there) AD than "others" is likely to mislead people. Wellbutrin, MAOI's, NARI's etc., are all very different drugs in different categories. Prozac and other SSRI's are more commonly prescribed (particularly for first time patients) so they receive a lot of discussion, but shouldn't be directly compared to Effexor as often as they are. I've taken every SSRI, in addition to Effexor, Serzone, Norpramin, Reboxetine and Wellbutrin. I can tell you that Effexor is the only one from which I've had major withdrawal symptoms and extreme side effects. YMMV (and did or does) but that doesn't mean that Effexor isn't tougher to take (or discontinue) than most other ADs, which has nothing at all to do its "strength" or efficacy. Because it's tougher to take doesn't mean it's a better or stronger drug. Pdocs frequently refer to drugs as "easy to tolerate" or "more frequently difficult to tolerate". I happen to believe that Effexor needs more warnings. Would that have stopped me from trying it? No. I would have tried ECT at the time. But I think the information available about ECT is more accurate than that available about Effexor.
> >First, I want to say that I absolutely support everyone on this thread who have expressed concern and anger over
> extreme side effect from this drug. I know from experience that these side effects are real. I have had some really
> ugly side effects on this the drug ... but I must, in good conscience, say a few things about anti-depressant drugs in
> general. Although I do believe that the side effect of Effexor(XR) are probably more severe than other drugs in
> this class, I must state that I do believe all anti-depressant drugs have similar side effect. About 8 years ago, my
> mother died (my best friend) and then a number of other unpleasant things followed. I wasn't sleeping and went
> into depression. I took Prozac ... didn't help, but still stayed on it for about a year. When I stopped taking it (as
> my doctor insisted you don't need to wean so I didn't), I had terrible vertido and nausea for about two weeks.
> The side effect from taking Effexor and weaning off Effexor are more dramatic and intense, but the drugs ability to
> combat depression is also stronger (in my opinion and from my experience). It actually worked for me. These
> drugs have not been on the market long enough to know the possible long-term effects (anyone is welcome to
> correct me on this if I am wrong, I welcome the information). Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I think people
> need to know what they are up against, in general, if they choose to take an anti-depressant. I want to stress
> again, as I did in an earlier message, that when you are in a depression, most people will do just about anything to
> get out of it (unfortunately, some people even choose suicide). I don't advocate taking a drug that's symptoms
> make you worse, but I do have to say, from what I have learned from other people and through my own
> experience, ALL or MOST anti-depressants have side effects and they vary with different people. I am angry that
> I did not know the possible side effects of Effexor XR, I'm not angry that I had them (I hope this makes sense).
> Taking anti-depressants isn't an easy decision, but I think we need to mention that Effexor XR is an extreme
> version of this class of drugs, both in cure and side effects (my opinion), but I also think it is important to point out
> that ALL anti-depressants seem to have some level of unpleasant side effects and that people should be aware of
> this when making a decision to take them. If drugs are needed to help people get out of a potentially dangerous
> and debilitating emotional state, then maybe those side effects won't matter for a period of time, but ALL
> information should be available when the decision is made. Just my opinion ... and my observations. Fish
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 19, 2001, at 18:20:50
In reply to Re: Just my opinion..Fish, posted by Leighwit on April 19, 2001, at 13:32:10
Hi,
This is my first time to use this site. It's extremely helpful and I thank all of you for your comments.
I am currently on Klonapin @ 3mg per day. I've been on and off this med several times. Want to know about the withdrawal symptoms? Ha! Ask me! I have HAD them!
I know that we all have different body chemistry...But HOW different? Some say that they take Klonapin and it puts them right to sleep. With me, I could work vigorously and enthusiasticaly all night. I'm energized! I love the drug! Unfortunately, I love it with beer. So...I am about to start Effexor.
I've taken most of the SSRIs and some of the tri-cyclics on and off for most of my life. So Effexor appealed to me.
Of course, I am worried...As always. My main problem is anxiety, not depression. I just wonder how one will effect the other.
I am not anxious to get off the Klonapin, but my doctor thinks it's needed.
Any advice?Thanks to all of you out there!
heart-Anxious-Man
Posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hello Pamela,
The Doctors out there are responding predominantly to what the drug company reps are telling them. The reps are motivated by money, so their feedback to the doctor is going to be "slanted" as are some of the posts I've been reading. They are certainly not going to give the doctors all the facts concerning effexor. A drug company reps facts, when a drug starts presenting a problem, tend to become rationalizations. That in itself is a problem that is huge in the drug company industry. The doctors usually get the facts from their patients. Hence, the suggestion concerning taking a hand full of these posts and presenting them to the doctor. A good doctor will take a hard look when confronted with a multitude of symptoms and side effects in patients that all share commonalities. And then he has the pleasure of watching the drug rep back peddle when presented with the facts. As far as dosages go, I think effexor is an extremely volatile drug in any dosage. People who have been on it for any length of time need to discontinue it under the watchful eye of a good doctor. There are physical things that happen to the body during the withdrawal process that are in fact dangerous and could be life threatening. There are studies that confirm this. There is no established weaning process from the drug. I believe it was rushed to market for profit sake. And I go back to the fact the brain is uncharted territory. Introducing drugs that attempt to alter "state of mind" touted as offering relief for depression is some ones best guess. I'm not anti-drug but I am anti-carelessness. I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are the by-products of a serious chemical imbalance in the brain. Researchers haven't evened scratched the tip of the iceberg on this yet. Controlling the imbalance is the problem. The drug company’s answer is to throw it out there and see what happens. I don't dispute the fact that effexor is good for some but these people are in a MINORITY. And a small one at that. That's until they try to get off of it and then they join the majority. I also don't believe that these drug companies create drugs with the intent of hurting people. What I have a problem with is when they bury their heads in the sand or put blinders on when it comes to addressing the "aftermath" of their creations. Then they are hurting people. The doctors can't be blamed but they can be educated by their patients, not by the drug company reps.
I've also looked at Marilyns posts...GOOD JOB. No one can dispute the facts!!!! Don't let up. Don't be to surprised when you see a segment on one of televisions renowned evening news magazines concerning effexor. I know, that at this time, there is some real heavy investigating going on.
Also, keep tabs on your overall health. This will be important in the future.
This post should bring them out of the woodwork.
Can't wait to see the responses to this one.Regards,
Leo
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 19, 2001, at 22:24:22
In reply to Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
Genau! That's German for 'exactly'. I work for a bio-pharm corp. I know how they operate. You're exactly right! Profit is the motive, maybe not with the scientists and developers, but certainly with the marketing reps. Their stock is the THE THING. I commend you on your observations. I mean, we read the PDR and all the listed side-effects...Those are printed for LEGAL reasons. How can a drug cause both hair growth and hair loss at once? Stupid! But, they print this stuff to cover their asses. If it's printed and you take the med, you can't sue them. PERIOD. That's the point. YOU WERE INFORMED.
I've had trouble with my Dr. too...At least as far as his suggestions of drugs that I should or shouldn't take. And on what is his knowledge based? The pharm reps! The Dr. has never taken these drugs, has never gone through the side-effects, has never gone through withdrawal.
So, just be aware of this. Sure, they spent a lot of time in school. But what about our lives?heart-Anxious-Man
> Hello Pamela,
>
> The Doctors out there are responding predominantly to what the drug company reps are telling them. The reps are motivated by money, so their feedback to the doctor is going to be "slanted" as are some of the posts I've been reading. They are certainly not going to give the doctors all the facts concerning effexor. A drug company reps facts, when a drug starts presenting a problem, tend to become rationalizations. That in itself is a problem that is huge in the drug company industry. The doctors usually get the facts from their patients. Hence, the suggestion concerning taking a hand full of these posts and presenting them to the doctor. A good doctor will take a hard look when confronted with a multitude of symptoms and side effects in patients that all share commonalities. And then he has the pleasure of watching the drug rep back peddle when presented with the facts. As far as dosages go, I think effexor is an extremely volatile drug in any dosage. People who have been on it for any length of time need to discontinue it under the watchful eye of a good doctor. There are physical things that happen to the body during the withdrawal process that are in fact dangerous and could be life threatening. There are studies that confirm this. There is no established weaning process from the drug. I believe it was rushed to market for profit sake. And I go back to the fact the brain is uncharted territory. Introducing drugs that attempt to alter "state of mind" touted as offering relief for depression is some ones best guess. I'm not anti-drug but I am anti-carelessness. I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are the by-products of a serious chemical imbalance in the brain. Researchers haven't evened scratched the tip of the iceberg on this yet. Controlling the imbalance is the problem. The drug company’s answer is to throw it out there and see what happens. I don't dispute the fact that effexor is good for some but these people are in a MINORITY. And a small one at that. That's until they try to get off of it and then they join the majority. I also don't believe that these drug companies create drugs with the intent of hurting people. What I have a problem with is when they bury their heads in the sand or put blinders on when it comes to addressing the "aftermath" of their creations. Then they are hurting people. The doctors can't be blamed but they can be educated by their patients, not by the drug company reps.
>
> I've also looked at Marilyns posts...GOOD JOB. No one can dispute the facts!!!! Don't let up. Don't be to surprised when you see a segment on one of televisions renowned evening news magazines concerning effexor. I know, that at this time, there is some real heavy investigating going on.
>
> Also, keep tabs on your overall health. This will be important in the future.
>
> This post should bring them out of the woodwork.
> Can't wait to see the responses to this one.
>
> Regards,
> Leo
Posted by Mercy_M on April 19, 2001, at 22:51:57
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hi Leo,
You have scared the hell out of me with your Effexor stories. I have been on 75mg for about 3 months. How do I start getting off this stuff. It has made me a much easier person to live with. I don't fly into crazy rages over the silliest little things. Is there another drug you could suggest? I'm scared to go off it and return to my hateful, angry, dark self. Can you share your insight with me?
Mercy McMaster
Posted by Leo on April 20, 2001, at 0:54:50
In reply to Leo! Please Read This!, posted by Mercy_M on April 19, 2001, at 22:51:57
> Hi Leo,
>
> You have scared the hell out of me with your Effexor stories. I have been on 75mg for about 3 months. How do I start getting off this stuff. It has made me a much easier person to live with. I don't fly into crazy rages over the silliest little things. Is there another drug you could suggest? I'm scared to go off it and return to my hateful, angry, dark self. Can you share your insight with me?
>
> Mercy McMasterI SAID THEY'D COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK, DIDN'T I?
YA JUST GOTTA LOVE THESE GUYS.
Posted by Denny on April 20, 2001, at 0:55:40
In reply to Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
The point is I have gone off Effexor numerous times and felt so awful when I relasped into depression that I have to start taking it again! When I've stopped taking it cold turkey or tapered off too quickly I experience those withdrawl symptoms also: although I find them to be a minor annoyance compared to the anxiety, depression and irritability of mental illness! Dont be hoodwinked by critics who have unknown agendas.
Posted by Fish on April 20, 2001, at 7:59:27
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Mercy, I feel for you in your dilemma. Although everyone can share their experiences, I think that is advise you need to get from your doctor. I'm sure there are other drugs out there with less severe side effects that could help you if you need them. As I tried to explain again in a prior email (of course it was misinterpreted and overanalysed as I think most messages are, picked apart to the extreme) sometimes, no matter what the side effects, drugs are necessary to make some people's lives bearable. I worry that some of these messages will deter people from getting the help they need. Again "I personally think" if medication is needed, you should get all the facts and keep trying until you get it right. Talk with your doctor about other medications (maybe some that have been on the market longer). I'm sure there is something else that will work if you really feel you need it. I am currently going through withdrawal of Effexor XR and it is one of the hardest things I have ever done. That is MY personal experience, as I can only speak for myself. You have to make your decision for yourself as well. Good Luck Fish
Posted by JAMMER on April 20, 2001, at 8:09:08
In reply to Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
Leo, Nice piece of writing, and damn close to the real issues. What's key is "a good doctor". I didn't get much help from my primary care physician, and the pharacists I talked with were'nt much better. Luckily I'm working with another Dr. who treated my withdrawal, and worked with me on a weaning path that is much slower, but with a more consistant dosage, than what was provided by the previous folks. And so far I'm ok, not great, but ok.
Leo is absolutely correct, there are physical as well as "mental" withdrawal symptoms, that can cause real harm and suffering. If your not getting the help you need, keep looking. Struggling through this alone can be damaging.-Jammer
> Hello Pamela,
>
> The Doctors out there are responding predominantly to what the drug company reps are telling them. The reps are motivated by money, so their feedback to the doctor is going to be "slanted" as are some of the posts I've been reading. They are certainly not going to give the doctors all the facts concerning effexor. A drug company reps facts, when a drug starts presenting a problem, tend to become rationalizations. That in itself is a problem that is huge in the drug company industry. The doctors usually get the facts from their patients. Hence, the suggestion concerning taking a hand full of these posts and presenting them to the doctor. A good doctor will take a hard look when confronted with a multitude of symptoms and side effects in patients that all share commonalities. And then he has the pleasure of watching the drug rep back peddle when presented with the facts. As far as dosages go, I think effexor is an extremely volatile drug in any dosage. People who have been on it for any length of time need to discontinue it under the watchful eye of a good doctor. There are physical things that happen to the body during the withdrawal process that are in fact dangerous and could be life threatening. There are studies that confirm this. There is no established weaning process from the drug. I believe it was rushed to market for profit sake. And I go back to the fact the brain is uncharted territory. Introducing drugs that attempt to alter "state of mind" touted as offering relief for depression is some ones best guess. I'm not anti-drug but I am anti-carelessness. I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are the by-products of a serious chemical imbalance in the brain. Researchers haven't evened scratched the tip of the iceberg on this yet. Controlling the imbalance is the problem. The drug company’s answer is to throw it out there and see what happens. I don't dispute the fact that effexor is good for some but these people are in a MINORITY. And a small one at that. That's until they try to get off of it and then they join the majority. I also don't believe that these drug companies create drugs with the intent of hurting people. What I have a problem with is when they bury their heads in the sand or put blinders on when it comes to addressing the "aftermath" of their creations. Then they are hurting people. The doctors can't be blamed but they can be educated by their patients, not by the drug company reps.
>
> I've also looked at Marilyns posts...GOOD JOB. No one can dispute the facts!!!! Don't let up. Don't be to surprised when you see a segment on one of televisions renowned evening news magazines concerning effexor. I know, that at this time, there is some real heavy investigating going on.
>
> Also, keep tabs on your overall health. This will be important in the future.
>
> This post should bring them out of the woodwork.
> Can't wait to see the responses to this one.
>
> Regards,
> Leo
Posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 8:26:50
In reply to Re: Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Denny on April 20, 2001, at 0:55:40
> The point is I have gone off Effexor numerous times and felt so awful when I relasped into depression that I have to start taking it again! When I've stopped taking it cold turkey or tapered off too quickly I experience those withdrawl symptoms also: although I find them to be a minor annoyance compared to the anxiety, depression and irritability of mental illness! Dont be hoodwinked by critics who have unknown agendas.
Hi Denny,
I haven't reponded to any of your previous threads, they all seem to say pretty much the same thing..... with the exception of the comment
"Don't be hoodwinked by critics who have unknown agendas >"
May I ask what that would mean, as it doesn't make any sense to me. Please give me an example of an "unknown agenda".
Thanks, Pamela
Posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 12:49:35
In reply to effexor and drinking, posted by Jane on April 15, 2000, at 4:01:54
Posted by Snuffy on April 20, 2001, at 14:12:11
In reply to Re: effexor and drinking, posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 12:49:35
>
> Copied from this website....
> http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/mcabinet/EffexorXR.html
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Can EFFEXOR XR be used safely in patients who consume alcohol?
>
> EFFEXOR XR has not been shown to increase the alcohol-induced impairment of mental and motor skills. Nevertheless, advise patients taking EFFEXOR XR to avoid alcohol.
> ---------------------------------------
>
> My personal thought: Alcohol dehydrates you. Effexor dehydrates you. Be VERY careful, if you get too dehydrated it can cause major problems and become a nasty cycle (you're dehydrated so you can't keep liquids down, so you throw up, so you get more dehydrated, so you can't keep liquids down....etc.).
>
> I just started on this stuff, right now I'm so damn shakey and dopey, I hate it. And I gotta double this dose on monday. :(
> Did ANYONE start directly at 75mgs, or did most of you folks start at 37.5?
>
> sl
>
> > I started taking effexor about 4 weeks ago (and still have the side effects of nausea, sleepiness, headaches and loss of appetite). I've tried aropax and zoloft (both which made me really sick) and doxepin for about a year (which didn't make me sick but didn't actually help_
> > Just wondering if anyone knows about the effects of drinking and taking certain drugs when on effexor. Is it too risky?
> > I drank the other weekend and just felt a bit worse than usual.
> > Thanks if anyone can helpI just started effexor @37.5mg. I'm to take that for 7 days then go to 75mg for 7 days then 150mg for 7 then 150mg twice per day. So far I haven't had any side effects ... fingers crossed!!
Posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 14:31:54
In reply to Re: effexor and drinking, posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 12:49:35
>
> Copied from this website....
> http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/mcabinet/EffexorXR.html
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Can EFFEXOR XR be used safely in patients who consume alcohol?
>
> EFFEXOR XR has not been shown to increase the alcohol-induced impairment of mental and motor skills. Nevertheless, advise patients taking EFFEXOR XR to avoid alcohol.
> ---------------------------------------
>
> My personal thought: Alcohol dehydrates you. Effexor dehydrates you. Be VERY careful, if you get too dehydrated it can cause major problems and become a nasty cycle (you're dehydrated so you can't keep liquids down, so you throw up, so you get more dehydrated, so you can't keep liquids down....etc.).
>
> I just started on this stuff, right now I'm so damn shakey and dopey, I hate it. And I gotta double this dose on monday. :(
> Did ANYONE start directly at 75mgs, or did most of you folks start at 37.5?
>
> sl
>
> > I started taking effexor about 4 weeks ago (and still have the side effects of nausea, sleepiness, headaches and loss of appetite). I've tried aropax and zoloft (both which made me really sick) and doxepin for about a year (which didn't make me sick but didn't actually help_
> > Just wondering if anyone knows about the effects of drinking and taking certain drugs when on effexor. Is it too risky?
> > I drank the other weekend and just felt a bit worse than usual.
> > Thanks if anyone can help
Hopefully (in my iopinion) all doctors start their patients off on the 37.5, I think that is why they made it. You may want to ask for the 37.5 Samples, doctors have hundreds. They also havr starter packs. One week 37.5 and then 75.
As for thr drinking, I am not much of a drinker but when I was on Effexor (full does), I wanted to "drink". Go figure...I felt that way on Prozac when I took it years ago for a short time, but I thought that was becasue it felt like speed to me.
I strongly suggest you do not drink while on any kind of mind altering drug. Opinion only!Good Luck,
Pamela
Posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 14:57:48
In reply to Re: effexor and drinking, posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 14:31:54
Posted by mstar on April 20, 2001, at 15:54:12
In reply to Leo It's Mercy! What woodwork? Huh? » Leo, posted by Mercy_M on April 20, 2001, at 14:37:49
Mercy,
Please don't let the negative remarks scare you off from effexor. Everyone reacts differently and everyone has different symptoms. Everyone hates being on medications, and they are scary, but deep down, if you really need them, you know it. I would hate that this board would make you give up on your recovery through antidepressants. TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR!!! These posts are not doctors! Not all doctors are great, but the decision to go off your medication should not be one to take lightly. Be good to yourself and don't be scared. I have had a positive experience so far. And if you have been ok so far, I would stick it out. Depression is a serious disease with serious consequences. Please continue to get help!
Best-
Ms
> > > Hi Leo,
> > >
> > > You have scared the hell out of me with your Effexor stories. I have been on 75mg for about 3 months. How do I start getting off this stuff. It has made me a much easier person to live with. I don't fly into crazy rages over the silliest little things. Is there another drug you could suggest? I'm scared to go off it and return to my hateful, angry, dark self. Can you share your insight with me?
> > >
> > > Mercy McMaster
> >
> >
> >
> > I SAID THEY'D COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK, DIDN'T I?
> > YA JUST GOTTA LOVE THESE GUYS.
> Leo I'm not sure what you mean about the whole woodwork thing. I just found this site lastnight from my sympatico search engine. I live in Western Canada and Have only started EFXR 3 months ago. About the time you started to taper off. The reason I have asked for your guidance is because you make a lot of posts and your reaction to the drug scared me. This is serious to me. It is not a stupid joke or a flake from whatever woodworks you think I came out of. My depression was triggered by my fathers violent death 7 years ago and what seemed to be a month long bout of PMS.(Every DAMN Month!) I was slowly and meanly lashing out at all those who I'm supposed to love. I still feel depressed on the EFXR but the anger and rage has subsided. I'm also taking Xanax for the occasional PMS outbreaks. I have totally gone from feeling like things are better to "Oh my god! Have I further screwed myself by taking this stuff. I totally trusted my Doctor to know what I needed. He is the first Doctor that never just dismissed my symptoms to foolishness. He said we could work on this problem together. I'm so upset to find all these side effects that result from trying to get off the effexor. What dosage were you on befor you decided to stop? I am for real and can prove it if you e-mail me. Please don't dismiss me as foolish. I need to know how to withdraw off this med. I'm a little hesitant to share my findings with my doctor. I need to handle this myself. Try something herbal or homeopathic. Just get back to me. Thanx, Mercy McMaster
>
> mercy_mcmaster@alberta.com
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 20, 2001, at 17:29:45
In reply to Effexor and Klonapin, posted by Anxious-Man on April 19, 2001, at 18:20:50
Hi Mercy,
I don't understand why some people here have to be rude or arrogant or dismissive. The comments about 'coming out of the woodwork'...What? It's just uncalled for and gauche.
And, not all doctors are reliable. Think about this, and I don't want to scare you, but...what is the doctor's interest in your recovery? What is his/her stake in all of this? The oath that they take? Why would the doc. want you to recover at all? To lose a patient? To lose income? Also, the majority of these doctors use us, in ways, like guinea pigs. They have no idea of the actual effects because they've never experienced them. How can they be that sympathetic? They certainly can't be empathetic. This is why we need to share our information as the people who ACTUALLY have to deal with the consequences and effects. I hope that things work out for you.
I, myself, am just starting Effexor. My doctor told me to take the 37.5mg per day. I agreed. I am instead taking 18.75mg per day. I want to build up slowly. I don't want to have panic attacks and hallucinations as I did with Prozac. Also, I take 3mg of Klonapin per day (Have for a while). So, we'll see what happens.
Best of luck to you,
Anxious-Man
Posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 18:41:01
In reply to Regarding: Woodworking!!! This is for Mercy..., posted by Anxious-Man on April 20, 2001, at 17:29:45
> Hi Mercy,
> I don't understand why some people here have to be rude or arrogant or dismissive. The comments about 'coming out of the woodwork'...What? It's just uncalled for and gauche.
> And, not all doctors are reliable. Think about this, and I don't want to scare you, but...what is the doctor's interest in your recovery? What is his/her stake in all of this? The oath that they take? Why would the doc. want you to recover at all? To lose a patient? To lose income? Also, the majority of these doctors use us, in ways, like guinea pigs. They have no idea of the actual effects because they've never experienced them. How can they be that sympathetic? They certainly can't be empathetic. This is why we need to share our information as the people who ACTUALLY have to deal with the consequences and effects. I hope that things work out for you.
> I, myself, am just starting Effexor. My doctor told me to take the 37.5mg per day. I agreed. I am instead taking 18.75mg per day. I want to build up slowly. I don't want to have panic attacks and hallucinations as I did with Prozac. Also, I take 3mg of Klonapin per day (Have for a while). So, we'll see what happens.
> Best of luck to you,
> Anxious-ManAnxious-Man,
Though I don't feel the need to defend Leo, as he has been a great help to me and probably many others. You might consider going back and reading some of his prior threads.
He bases his threads on "facts" and "personal" experience and I don't think it is meant to sound arrogant.
What I believe he meant by "they are coming out of the woodwork" is that the drug companies plant people on this site to try and diffuse what us "sufferers" are going through. Food for thought. I am sure he meant no offense.
Thanks,
Pamela
Posted by Leo on April 20, 2001, at 20:22:00
In reply to Leo It's Mercy! What woodwork? Huh? » Leo, posted by Mercy_M on April 20, 2001, at 14:37:49
Mercy,
I do apologize for my response to your post. I have, in the past, been the subject of "damage control" by others on this site that have more than just a users agenda. Quite honestly, I did not take your post seriously, hence my response. Those of us that have been posting here for a while have a better understanding of where I was coming from. I am sorry if I offended you.
Let's start over. First, my posts, as well as the others are not by any means focused on scaring anybody. The are ment to create awareness. We are all people who have had different experiences using the drug. The majority of the experiences have been unfavorable, many to the extreme. The posts speak for themselves. There are thousands of people around the world on this drug. In a minority of these patients the drug has a positive effect. It did for me when I first started taking it 5 years ago. However, this positive effect was short lived and other problems began to arise. The depression was abated for a short period of time. Then it started sneaking back into my daily routine. Now the doctor’s answer to this was to increase the dosage. I didn't take his advice and maintained the dose originally prescribed. I lived on the edge with depression. Some days were good, others bad. Along with this came some other "symptoms" that did not exist prior to taking effexor. Major fatigue, a nasty disposition, long periods of sleep followed by even longer periods of sleeplessness, severely aching muscles and a general apathetic approach to daily living. I didn't care if I got up and dressed. I didn't care if the bills didn't get paid and so on. And, as I'm on the drug, I seem to begin to further retreat into myself and from the outside world. Not good for what I do. I saw everything that was going on. I knew it and didn't care. And I had no viable reason to be this way. So I decided to make some changes to improve my life. One was to get off the effexor. You can read my previous posts concerning that experience. As I weaned off the drug, for what took almost an entire year, I started feeling much better. I was coming back to life. During the weaning process I was on and off the drug because of the severity of the withdrawal. And, quite honestly, the withdrawal scared the hell out of me. I had know idea what was going on. I thought that something else was wrong with me. I has no clue about the withdrawal effects that surrounded effexor. As I was on and off of the drug during the weaning process I noticed that the "depression" seemed more intense when taking the drug than when not, however, the lessoned depression was superceded by the severe withdrawal. Now that I am completely off the drug I feel fantastic. I'm having fun. No depression, no anxiety, no fear, no apathy, no nothing. And I see the same trend in hundreds of posts on the internet from people who have broken away from this drug.
Now lets talk about your concerns. First, I'm not a doctor and would not ever suggest a medication to replace something else.
Second, if the effexor has abated all the things you have expressed.........why change now?
What you need to be well aware of is the stealthiness of the drug. Reading these posts will help you recognize when the drug is hurting you more than helping you. This trend usually begins to be recognizable right around the six-month mark of taking the drug and then there appears to be a fast relapse back to the emotions that triggered the medication in the first place.
Again, the doctor’s response to this is to increase the dosage. More depression....more medication. This might be the answer with other meds out there but I don't think it applies to effexor.The third thing your are going to have to deal with are the short and long-term effects the drug has on your body. This, in all cases I have researched, is inescapable. The drug will have a negative effect on your physical body.
Finally, your will have withdrawal effects. To get an idea of what to expect, miss one or two doses of the medication and you'll get a good taste of the withdrawal.
If you are having problems with your doctor understanding your fear, print out a handful of these posts and take them to him. If he does not respond in a way that makes your feel better about the medication....find a new doctor. Do not attempt to stop taking this medication without medical supervision. There is a weaning process that must be planned and followed. And it's good to have a doctor you trust to call if
the withdrawal becomes frightening as it has with most of us.Again, I am heartily sorry for my original response to your post and hope that this has helped you in some way
Regards,
Leo
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 20, 2001, at 21:53:42
In reply to Re: Regarding: Woodworking!!! This is for Mercy..., posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 18:41:01
Hi Pamela,
I have not read, or rather, have read few of Leo's posts. It's hard to keep up with who is who. Plus, I am new to this site. I understand what you're saying. It just seemed to me that Mercy was hurt by those comments. I felt a need to...I dunno, somehow rectify the situation. I mean no offence to anyone. I appreciate all of the comments from everyone. They really do help. Especially in that area of making one feel that they're not alone in this.
As I had said previously, I work for a bio-pharm corp. I'm no sales rep. But, I know how they work. I don't know about site infiltration. That seems a bit odd. These people are paid well. I don't know whether or not they infiltrate the site. Actually, I doubt it. It would seem to me pretty unprofitable. Maybe they do. I dunno. Seems unlikely though.
heart-Anxious-Man
Posted by Leo on April 20, 2001, at 22:03:17
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
This applies to everyone....both men and women.
If it has not already been done have your doctor check your thyroid function. It's a simple blood test. HYPO-thyroidism is a possible strong link to depressive illness.Regards,
Leo
Posted by CPDing on April 21, 2001, at 0:14:34
In reply to Re: Leo It's Mercy! What woodwork? Huh?, posted by mstar on April 20, 2001, at 15:54:12
I stumbled across this board many months ago in searching for Effexor information, but not posting anything. My father who is Type 2 diabetic and some researchers have started using low dosages of Effexor for numbness and tingling in the feet and hands with much success. So I wanted more information. Leo might want to jump to another board for that one.
I have had success with Effexor, and I thought I would post finally just as another story with information to share. We are all unique and not every drug will work the same on everyone. I too had similar side effect problems as posted by others. Against my doctors advise, I tried to stop cold turkey...BIG MISTAKE! The horror stories are true about withdrawing, but I knew that before I took the drug. I knew the side effects of long-term use before I took the drug. I still tried it, because if you are reading this and you REALLY have suffered from depression YOU know how much you just want to feel "normal" again. Whatever "normal" is anyway.
I have had the benefits of a well-informed doctor and an equally informed and caring psychotherapist. We talk regularly about my progress. I have been treated for some time now and I have been through the withdraw process twice successfully and once as mentioned unsuccessfully while trying different dosages.
I do know that if your thyroid is not in check when taking this medication it can produce very strange side effects, but again I knew that before I started taking it (medically documented.) I had my thyroid re-checked and my medication adjusted. When I find the documentation, I will pass it along to those who are interested.
I guess this post is to say thank you to those of you who have researched and posted so much information. I do feel however, that those of us who have had success with Effexor should be able to post and be heard as well.
Just like the "common" cold has many remedies both natural and man-made that work great, none of them is a cure-all and not all of them work the same on everybody. I have a few natural remedies that I swear by for a cold, but friends of mine say the remedies offer them no relief. I wont' stop my treatment because it didn't work for them, but I won't force it on anyone either. I know the common cold isn't as serious a condition as depression, but I do know that being a well-informed consumer is the best way to defend yourself and get the care you need.
Be forward and honest with your healthcare provider. Ask serious questions, you'd be surprised how many people don't. Demand to be heard they will listen! Your doctor doesn't have all the answers either they aren't Gods; educate him/her with what you found. When they see your interest in YOUR OWN health, not just a quick fix, they WILL listen, because if they don't they know what the consequences can be.
Best Wishes to all who are searching for for help, this is a great way to be informed.
Posted by Pamela on April 21, 2001, at 0:27:17
In reply to Re: Regarding: Woodworking!!! This is for Mercy... » Pamela, posted by Anxious-Man on April 20, 2001, at 21:53:42
> Hi Pamela,
> I have not read, or rather, have read few of Leo's posts. It's hard to keep up with who is who. Plus, I am new to this site. I understand what you're saying. It just seemed to me that Mercy was hurt by those comments. I felt a need to...I dunno, somehow rectify the situation. I mean no offence to anyone. I appreciate all of the comments from everyone. They really do help. Especially in that area of making one feel that they're not alone in this.
> As I had said previously, I work for a bio-pharm corp. I'm no sales rep. But, I know how they work. I don't know about site infiltration. That seems a bit odd. These people are paid well. I don't know whether or not they infiltrate the site. Actually, I doubt it. It would seem to me pretty unprofitable. Maybe they do. I dunno. Seems unlikely though.
> heart-Anxious-ManAnxious Man,
Thanks for the respomse. Please be sure and read Leo's apology to Mercy.
The site has it's ups and downs try to stay with the ups, even though they may seem like downs. HA
Did that make any sense?Anyway, stay with people you feel supported by... not attacked, (and I don't mean Leo's thread) I mean the people who disallow what you are going through. None of us are Dr's.(except Dr. Bob) and all we have is our experiences.
Take Care, Talk to ya soon.
Pamela
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 2:13:36
In reply to Re: Regarding: Woodworking!!! This is for Mercy..., posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 18:41:01
> the drug companies plant people on this site to try and diffuse what us "sufferers" are going through.
Please refrain from making accusations, especially unfounded ones. Do you have evidence to support the above? If so, please let me know, I would of course be interested. In the meantime I'm going to try again to block you from posting.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups from others regarding civility or being blocked, if not redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 2:16:51
In reply to Mercy » Mercy_M, posted by Leo on April 20, 2001, at 20:22:00
> The majority of the experiences have been unfavorable
> In a minority of these patients the drug has a positive effect.
> The drug will have a negative effect on your physical body.
> Finally, your will have withdrawal effects.
Please refrain from making unjustified generalizations and definitive predictions of the future. Otherwise, I'll need to try to block you from posting. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding civility or being blocked, if not redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, may be deleted.
Posted by Mercy_M on April 21, 2001, at 19:27:34
In reply to Re: please inform rather than misinform » Leo, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 2:16:51
I just want to say thank you to Leo for appologizing to me for dismissing me as an undercover drug company med infiltrator. I never meant to get him blocked from posting in the future. I understand that his EFXR experiences are just that HIS! He is a great asset to this site. All of you need to realize that the postings on this site can scare rather than inform. It is also a very helpful site, and I find that any of the postings I've read a great help. I'm sorry if I have upset the natural order of things on this message board. Take care all.
Mercy McMaster
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