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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 827 to 851 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by hotlynau on April 19, 2001, at 1:24:52
In reply to Re: Hate it! , posted by Pamela on April 17, 2001, at 10:59:36
Hi I am a newie< my name is Lynne from Australia.
Have had FM for 10 years. been on Paxil? for 2 years and due to loss of sexual libidio GP put me on Effexor_xr 75 mgs. and god have I been sick. gp DID NOT tell me about side effects getting started!! so I feel really cheated. I get enough pain from FM without getting more from this drug.
SO just starting to get over a month of hell for this is and now discover that this drug can give you weight gain. This is the worst news as I was lapbanded in December last year for obesity. so far I have lost 14 kgs and no way do I want to put it on again. Again I am so angry with my GP for not knowing this and prescribing this drug for me. Now i will have to go through horrendous withdrawel to get off. Getting off Paxil was hell, makes me think that effexor will be much worse. Its not fair!!!!
Posted by Pamela on April 19, 2001, at 8:10:03
In reply to Re: New User, posted by Gbear on April 18, 2001, at 16:58:51
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > My doctor just prescribed me Effexor 37.5mg for 7 days and then increased to 75mg a day. I do have anxiety and maybe mild depression, or what the doctor says could be SAD (seasonal affective disorder) after reading some of the previous posts, I'm a bit leary of even starting this medication. Guess I could just use a bit of support and encouragement and maybe a few good reasons why I should start on this med.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help
> > >
> > > Cindy
> >
> > Hi Cindy,
> > As in previous posts I'm going to suggest staying at the 37.5 for up to the 6 weeks that, it is said, this drug needs to do its' work. Ask your doctor if he feels that's okay. You can always increase to 75 (or more) but perhaps your system is sensitive and you can feel better at the low level. I, too, think some of the extra deepness of my funk is SAD, and I've decided to stay at 37.5 until I finish my initial 30 day supply which, along with the first 7 day sample, would work out to 5 weeks. I'll see how I feel than....
> > Good Luck and keep us posted.
> > David
>
> Hi Cindy,
> I agree with David. Try the smaller dose for awhile, please! This is a very effective drug, it is also strong. If you are able to maintain at work and home, what's the harm in giving it a couple weeks. I have been on it for I forget how long (a side effect), and would rather not have had to rely on ANY drug to keep me stable, but it's working, so...
>
> GbearCindy,
I am, sure you have read some of my other threads so you know I am in the process of weaning off Effexor.
But I will share something with you regarding SAD. There are two methods that help with SAD. I don't know where you live, but if it is a climate that it gloomy alot of the time then you might try a tanning booth. Corny as it may sound it helps tremdously, it is the lights that give you the spectrums of the sun needed for this disorder. If you are not into tanning....there are special lights you can buy that are full spectrum for SAD. The actual set-up can be a little expensive ($150.00 ish) but if this is ongoing then it won't seem like much money and they last for a long time.
IN MY OPINION, if this is the extent of your emotional state, I truly believe that Effexor is far too potent of a drug for you to be on. Heed the others advice and stay at a low dose for awhile, I was only on 75 mg (8 mos) and the withdrawals have been horrendous.
Good luck and if you need help finding the lights, I'd be glad to help you research.
Sincerely,
Pamela
Posted by Pamela on April 19, 2001, at 8:39:57
In reply to Fibromyalgia and gastric lapband! , posted by hotlynau on April 19, 2001, at 1:24:52
> Hi I am a newie< my name is Lynne from Australia.
> Have had FM for 10 years. been on Paxil? for 2 years and due to loss of sexual libidio GP put me on Effexor_xr 75 mgs. and god have I been sick. gp DID NOT tell me about side effects getting started!! so I feel really cheated. I get enough pain from FM without getting more from this drug.
> SO just starting to get over a month of hell for this is and now discover that this drug can give you weight gain. This is the worst news as I was lapbanded in December last year for obesity. so far I have lost 14 kgs and no way do I want to put it on again. Again I am so angry with my GP for not knowing this and prescribing this drug for me. Now i will have to go through horrendous withdrawel to get off. Getting off Paxil was hell, makes me think that effexor will be much worse. Its not fair!!!!Lynne,
No it is not fair, the only thing we can do though is support each other. I personally do not feel that GP's should be prescribing ind altering drugs. If you read some of my previous threads you will see that I went to ER over the side effects and was told I had an inner ear infection and a virus, the following Monday I called my psychiatrist and he laughed and said, "No it is the Effexor." I truly believe even he did not know the magnitude of the withdrawls. I have since educated him with many print outs of the threads and Leo's research docs. He is a fairly humble man and has handled this pretty well.
As for the weight gain, I don't know that it happens to everyone, but I too have now gained about 22 lbs in 8 mos. (I am not sure how much 14kg's are) I was just reading last night about an herbal supplement from Canada that talks about Seratonin boosters (ie: SSSRI's being some) and that when you come off of them your Seratonin drops so quickly that you crave massive amounts of carbs which then stimulates the Seratonin. I can definitely attest to that. I have been eating carbs like a mad woman and yes it makes me feel physically better. I have always eaten pretty healthly and maintained a nice weight. Are you seeing the same doctor thst did the surgery? Might talk to him if not.
Last but not least, Effexor killed my sex drive and I had only been married for 1 month when I went on it. It has been quite a struggle as you can imagine. No problems prior to that.I don't want to sound like doom and gloom because I am almost off and feeling MUCH better, so you need to weigh all of "YOUR" facts and feelings along with hopefully a psychiatrist Then make an informed decision.
Prayers are with you.
Pamela
Posted by Fish on April 19, 2001, at 8:49:36
In reply to Re: Goofy or Anyone how do you know the mg in EFXR, posted by Pamela on April 17, 2001, at 10:00:51
Hi Goofy and Pamela ... both of you were so helpful in giving me information on how to wean and what to expect. It is almost three weeks now. I am down to 18 mg a day. It's been rough, side effects are bad at the end of the day, but I am able to function (work, being mom and student). I am very tired. Seem to want to sleep all the time. Feel like I ran a marathon by the end of the day, but my side effects are milder .... I feel like I have a brain again! And I have actually been cold (sweating has decreased dramatically). I am trying to be patient with decreasing dosage. I think I went from 37.5 to 18 mg too quickly. Only gave it a week ... side effect really bad for a few days. Anyway, again thank you for your support. How are you two doing? Fish
Posted by Pamela on April 19, 2001, at 8:52:57
In reply to Withdrawal Update, posted by Leo on April 18, 2001, at 23:26:44
> Out now almost 3 months. The fatigue is still there and occasional bouts with the dizziness and dysphoria. It looks like Wyeth has been busy on this site. It is remarkable how when factual information and reports start hitting these effexor sites, that there is an moderate to massive influx of "good" experiences....most obviously written by some drug savy indivduals. And then there those that write and make know sense at all. Makes you wonder. Anyway, Pamela I'm glad to see your're back. It appears that you have passed through the agitation stage. Horraaaayy!!! I hope things are steadily improving. And those of you that appear to be giving advice on dosage amounts......you are playing Russian roulette with people you do not know. I would strongly suggest that you encourage anyone who is struggling with this drug to take a handful of these posts and get to their doctor.
>
> I was on vacation, a cruise. First time I've been on one in a long time. Had a fantastic time.
>
> Things do get better when you get away from this drug.
>
> Regards,
> LeoHi Leo,
So glad you are back. Although I was unable to post for awhile I still read everyday and wondered what happened to you. Glad it was something good. A cruise sounds great right about now.Anyway,,, as for the weaning advice. As we have read... ALOT of the poeple aren't getting the help they need from their docotrs for weaning off because the doctors either are educated or don't believe what we are going through is real.
After I got to half of 37.5 (18.75) per my doctor... he too, said I should be fine to quit. As you know from my previous threads that was not the case. So I took it upon my self to start counting the little granules.
I have since educated him with alot of the information from these threads and your research info. I agree that we should not be prescribing to people, but what do you think they should do if they are not getting the help they need from their doctors.
Any insight would be welcome!
I personally see you as the STABILITY AND WISDOM of this site. Other than Dr.Bob of course (SCHMOOZER) (SP)!
I trust you will direct them in the right direction.Glad you're back please keep us informed.
Sincerely,
Pamela
Posted by Fish on April 19, 2001, at 10:48:54
In reply to Re: New User, posted by Pamela on April 19, 2001, at 8:10:03
First, I want to say that I absolutely support everyone on this thread who have expressed concern and anger over
extreme side effect from this drug. I know from experience that these side effects are real. I have had some really
ugly side effects on this the drug ... but I must, in good conscience, say a few things about anti-depressant drugs in
general. Although I do believe that the side effect of Effexor(XR) are probably more severe than other drugs in
this class, I must state that I do believe all anti-depressant drugs have similar side effect. About 8 years ago, my
mother died (my best friend) and then a number of other unpleasant things followed. I wasn't sleeping and went
into depression. I took Prozac ... didn't help, but still stayed on it for about a year. When I stopped taking it (as
my doctor insisted you don't need to wean so I didn't), I had terrible vertido and nausea for about two weeks.
The side effect from taking Effexor and weaning off Effexor are more dramatic and intense, but the drugs ability to
combat depression is also stronger (in my opinion and from my experience). It actually worked for me. These
drugs have not been on the market long enough to know the possible long-term effects (anyone is welcome to
correct me on this if I am wrong, I welcome the information). Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I think people
need to know what they are up against, in general, if they choose to take an anti-depressant. I want to stress
again, as I did in an earlier message, that when you are in a depression, most people will do just about anything to
get out of it (unfortunately, some people even choose suicide). I don't advocate taking a drug that's symptoms
make you worse, but I do have to say, from what I have learned from other people and through my own
experience, ALL or MOST anti-depressants have side effects and they vary with different people. I am angry that
I did not know the possible side effects of Effexor XR, I'm not angry that I had them (I hope this makes sense).
Taking anti-depressants isn't an easy decision, but I think we need to mention that Effexor XR is an extreme
version of this class of drugs, both in cure and side effects (my opinion), but I also think it is important to point out
that ALL anti-depressants seem to have some level of unpleasant side effects and that people should be aware of
this when making a decision to take them. If drugs are needed to help people get out of a potentially dangerous
and debilitating emotional state, then maybe those side effects won't matter for a period of time, but ALL
information should be available when the decision is made. Just my opinion ... and my observations. Fish
Posted by CindyG on April 19, 2001, at 12:02:07
In reply to Re: New User, posted by Pamela on April 19, 2001, at 8:10:03
Hi Everyone,
Thanks so much for all of the advice. I've been on the effexor for 4 days and I don't think I've been able to stay awake for more than 2 hours at a time without taking a nap. Won't work if this is still going on next week when I go back to work!!! Also not a good thing with 3 kids at home. Am seeing the doctor tomorrow and see what he says about this, whether to stick it out or not.
Pamela, thanks for the advice on the tanning. I'm from Canada, the northern part and we get winter like 8 months out of the year. My sister-in-law owns a tanning salon (convenient or what?) and I will go for some sessions and see what happens. I've also thought of trying some Kava for my anxiety.
Will keep everyone posted.
Cindy
Posted by Leighwit on April 19, 2001, at 13:32:10
In reply to Just my opinion, posted by Fish on April 19, 2001, at 10:48:54
Fish,
Effexor isn't an SSRI, and I think it's double jeopardy to compare one class of AD to another. To say that Effexor is a "stronger" (loosely paraphrasing there) AD than "others" is likely to mislead people. Wellbutrin, MAOI's, NARI's etc., are all very different drugs in different categories. Prozac and other SSRI's are more commonly prescribed (particularly for first time patients) so they receive a lot of discussion, but shouldn't be directly compared to Effexor as often as they are. I've taken every SSRI, in addition to Effexor, Serzone, Norpramin, Reboxetine and Wellbutrin. I can tell you that Effexor is the only one from which I've had major withdrawal symptoms and extreme side effects. YMMV (and did or does) but that doesn't mean that Effexor isn't tougher to take (or discontinue) than most other ADs, which has nothing at all to do its "strength" or efficacy. Because it's tougher to take doesn't mean it's a better or stronger drug. Pdocs frequently refer to drugs as "easy to tolerate" or "more frequently difficult to tolerate". I happen to believe that Effexor needs more warnings. Would that have stopped me from trying it? No. I would have tried ECT at the time. But I think the information available about ECT is more accurate than that available about Effexor.
> >First, I want to say that I absolutely support everyone on this thread who have expressed concern and anger over
> extreme side effect from this drug. I know from experience that these side effects are real. I have had some really
> ugly side effects on this the drug ... but I must, in good conscience, say a few things about anti-depressant drugs in
> general. Although I do believe that the side effect of Effexor(XR) are probably more severe than other drugs in
> this class, I must state that I do believe all anti-depressant drugs have similar side effect. About 8 years ago, my
> mother died (my best friend) and then a number of other unpleasant things followed. I wasn't sleeping and went
> into depression. I took Prozac ... didn't help, but still stayed on it for about a year. When I stopped taking it (as
> my doctor insisted you don't need to wean so I didn't), I had terrible vertido and nausea for about two weeks.
> The side effect from taking Effexor and weaning off Effexor are more dramatic and intense, but the drugs ability to
> combat depression is also stronger (in my opinion and from my experience). It actually worked for me. These
> drugs have not been on the market long enough to know the possible long-term effects (anyone is welcome to
> correct me on this if I am wrong, I welcome the information). Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I think people
> need to know what they are up against, in general, if they choose to take an anti-depressant. I want to stress
> again, as I did in an earlier message, that when you are in a depression, most people will do just about anything to
> get out of it (unfortunately, some people even choose suicide). I don't advocate taking a drug that's symptoms
> make you worse, but I do have to say, from what I have learned from other people and through my own
> experience, ALL or MOST anti-depressants have side effects and they vary with different people. I am angry that
> I did not know the possible side effects of Effexor XR, I'm not angry that I had them (I hope this makes sense).
> Taking anti-depressants isn't an easy decision, but I think we need to mention that Effexor XR is an extreme
> version of this class of drugs, both in cure and side effects (my opinion), but I also think it is important to point out
> that ALL anti-depressants seem to have some level of unpleasant side effects and that people should be aware of
> this when making a decision to take them. If drugs are needed to help people get out of a potentially dangerous
> and debilitating emotional state, then maybe those side effects won't matter for a period of time, but ALL
> information should be available when the decision is made. Just my opinion ... and my observations. Fish
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 19, 2001, at 18:20:50
In reply to Re: Just my opinion..Fish, posted by Leighwit on April 19, 2001, at 13:32:10
Hi,
This is my first time to use this site. It's extremely helpful and I thank all of you for your comments.
I am currently on Klonapin @ 3mg per day. I've been on and off this med several times. Want to know about the withdrawal symptoms? Ha! Ask me! I have HAD them!
I know that we all have different body chemistry...But HOW different? Some say that they take Klonapin and it puts them right to sleep. With me, I could work vigorously and enthusiasticaly all night. I'm energized! I love the drug! Unfortunately, I love it with beer. So...I am about to start Effexor.
I've taken most of the SSRIs and some of the tri-cyclics on and off for most of my life. So Effexor appealed to me.
Of course, I am worried...As always. My main problem is anxiety, not depression. I just wonder how one will effect the other.
I am not anxious to get off the Klonapin, but my doctor thinks it's needed.
Any advice?Thanks to all of you out there!
heart-Anxious-Man
Posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hello Pamela,
The Doctors out there are responding predominantly to what the drug company reps are telling them. The reps are motivated by money, so their feedback to the doctor is going to be "slanted" as are some of the posts I've been reading. They are certainly not going to give the doctors all the facts concerning effexor. A drug company reps facts, when a drug starts presenting a problem, tend to become rationalizations. That in itself is a problem that is huge in the drug company industry. The doctors usually get the facts from their patients. Hence, the suggestion concerning taking a hand full of these posts and presenting them to the doctor. A good doctor will take a hard look when confronted with a multitude of symptoms and side effects in patients that all share commonalities. And then he has the pleasure of watching the drug rep back peddle when presented with the facts. As far as dosages go, I think effexor is an extremely volatile drug in any dosage. People who have been on it for any length of time need to discontinue it under the watchful eye of a good doctor. There are physical things that happen to the body during the withdrawal process that are in fact dangerous and could be life threatening. There are studies that confirm this. There is no established weaning process from the drug. I believe it was rushed to market for profit sake. And I go back to the fact the brain is uncharted territory. Introducing drugs that attempt to alter "state of mind" touted as offering relief for depression is some ones best guess. I'm not anti-drug but I am anti-carelessness. I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are the by-products of a serious chemical imbalance in the brain. Researchers haven't evened scratched the tip of the iceberg on this yet. Controlling the imbalance is the problem. The drug company’s answer is to throw it out there and see what happens. I don't dispute the fact that effexor is good for some but these people are in a MINORITY. And a small one at that. That's until they try to get off of it and then they join the majority. I also don't believe that these drug companies create drugs with the intent of hurting people. What I have a problem with is when they bury their heads in the sand or put blinders on when it comes to addressing the "aftermath" of their creations. Then they are hurting people. The doctors can't be blamed but they can be educated by their patients, not by the drug company reps.
I've also looked at Marilyns posts...GOOD JOB. No one can dispute the facts!!!! Don't let up. Don't be to surprised when you see a segment on one of televisions renowned evening news magazines concerning effexor. I know, that at this time, there is some real heavy investigating going on.
Also, keep tabs on your overall health. This will be important in the future.
This post should bring them out of the woodwork.
Can't wait to see the responses to this one.Regards,
Leo
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 19, 2001, at 22:24:22
In reply to Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
Genau! That's German for 'exactly'. I work for a bio-pharm corp. I know how they operate. You're exactly right! Profit is the motive, maybe not with the scientists and developers, but certainly with the marketing reps. Their stock is the THE THING. I commend you on your observations. I mean, we read the PDR and all the listed side-effects...Those are printed for LEGAL reasons. How can a drug cause both hair growth and hair loss at once? Stupid! But, they print this stuff to cover their asses. If it's printed and you take the med, you can't sue them. PERIOD. That's the point. YOU WERE INFORMED.
I've had trouble with my Dr. too...At least as far as his suggestions of drugs that I should or shouldn't take. And on what is his knowledge based? The pharm reps! The Dr. has never taken these drugs, has never gone through the side-effects, has never gone through withdrawal.
So, just be aware of this. Sure, they spent a lot of time in school. But what about our lives?heart-Anxious-Man
> Hello Pamela,
>
> The Doctors out there are responding predominantly to what the drug company reps are telling them. The reps are motivated by money, so their feedback to the doctor is going to be "slanted" as are some of the posts I've been reading. They are certainly not going to give the doctors all the facts concerning effexor. A drug company reps facts, when a drug starts presenting a problem, tend to become rationalizations. That in itself is a problem that is huge in the drug company industry. The doctors usually get the facts from their patients. Hence, the suggestion concerning taking a hand full of these posts and presenting them to the doctor. A good doctor will take a hard look when confronted with a multitude of symptoms and side effects in patients that all share commonalities. And then he has the pleasure of watching the drug rep back peddle when presented with the facts. As far as dosages go, I think effexor is an extremely volatile drug in any dosage. People who have been on it for any length of time need to discontinue it under the watchful eye of a good doctor. There are physical things that happen to the body during the withdrawal process that are in fact dangerous and could be life threatening. There are studies that confirm this. There is no established weaning process from the drug. I believe it was rushed to market for profit sake. And I go back to the fact the brain is uncharted territory. Introducing drugs that attempt to alter "state of mind" touted as offering relief for depression is some ones best guess. I'm not anti-drug but I am anti-carelessness. I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are the by-products of a serious chemical imbalance in the brain. Researchers haven't evened scratched the tip of the iceberg on this yet. Controlling the imbalance is the problem. The drug company’s answer is to throw it out there and see what happens. I don't dispute the fact that effexor is good for some but these people are in a MINORITY. And a small one at that. That's until they try to get off of it and then they join the majority. I also don't believe that these drug companies create drugs with the intent of hurting people. What I have a problem with is when they bury their heads in the sand or put blinders on when it comes to addressing the "aftermath" of their creations. Then they are hurting people. The doctors can't be blamed but they can be educated by their patients, not by the drug company reps.
>
> I've also looked at Marilyns posts...GOOD JOB. No one can dispute the facts!!!! Don't let up. Don't be to surprised when you see a segment on one of televisions renowned evening news magazines concerning effexor. I know, that at this time, there is some real heavy investigating going on.
>
> Also, keep tabs on your overall health. This will be important in the future.
>
> This post should bring them out of the woodwork.
> Can't wait to see the responses to this one.
>
> Regards,
> Leo
Posted by Mercy_M on April 19, 2001, at 22:51:57
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hi Leo,
You have scared the hell out of me with your Effexor stories. I have been on 75mg for about 3 months. How do I start getting off this stuff. It has made me a much easier person to live with. I don't fly into crazy rages over the silliest little things. Is there another drug you could suggest? I'm scared to go off it and return to my hateful, angry, dark self. Can you share your insight with me?
Mercy McMaster
Posted by Leo on April 20, 2001, at 0:54:50
In reply to Leo! Please Read This!, posted by Mercy_M on April 19, 2001, at 22:51:57
> Hi Leo,
>
> You have scared the hell out of me with your Effexor stories. I have been on 75mg for about 3 months. How do I start getting off this stuff. It has made me a much easier person to live with. I don't fly into crazy rages over the silliest little things. Is there another drug you could suggest? I'm scared to go off it and return to my hateful, angry, dark self. Can you share your insight with me?
>
> Mercy McMasterI SAID THEY'D COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK, DIDN'T I?
YA JUST GOTTA LOVE THESE GUYS.
Posted by Denny on April 20, 2001, at 0:55:40
In reply to Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
The point is I have gone off Effexor numerous times and felt so awful when I relasped into depression that I have to start taking it again! When I've stopped taking it cold turkey or tapered off too quickly I experience those withdrawl symptoms also: although I find them to be a minor annoyance compared to the anxiety, depression and irritability of mental illness! Dont be hoodwinked by critics who have unknown agendas.
Posted by Fish on April 20, 2001, at 7:59:27
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Mercy, I feel for you in your dilemma. Although everyone can share their experiences, I think that is advise you need to get from your doctor. I'm sure there are other drugs out there with less severe side effects that could help you if you need them. As I tried to explain again in a prior email (of course it was misinterpreted and overanalysed as I think most messages are, picked apart to the extreme) sometimes, no matter what the side effects, drugs are necessary to make some people's lives bearable. I worry that some of these messages will deter people from getting the help they need. Again "I personally think" if medication is needed, you should get all the facts and keep trying until you get it right. Talk with your doctor about other medications (maybe some that have been on the market longer). I'm sure there is something else that will work if you really feel you need it. I am currently going through withdrawal of Effexor XR and it is one of the hardest things I have ever done. That is MY personal experience, as I can only speak for myself. You have to make your decision for yourself as well. Good Luck Fish
Posted by JAMMER on April 20, 2001, at 8:09:08
In reply to Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Leo on April 19, 2001, at 20:09:53
Leo, Nice piece of writing, and damn close to the real issues. What's key is "a good doctor". I didn't get much help from my primary care physician, and the pharacists I talked with were'nt much better. Luckily I'm working with another Dr. who treated my withdrawal, and worked with me on a weaning path that is much slower, but with a more consistant dosage, than what was provided by the previous folks. And so far I'm ok, not great, but ok.
Leo is absolutely correct, there are physical as well as "mental" withdrawal symptoms, that can cause real harm and suffering. If your not getting the help you need, keep looking. Struggling through this alone can be damaging.-Jammer
> Hello Pamela,
>
> The Doctors out there are responding predominantly to what the drug company reps are telling them. The reps are motivated by money, so their feedback to the doctor is going to be "slanted" as are some of the posts I've been reading. They are certainly not going to give the doctors all the facts concerning effexor. A drug company reps facts, when a drug starts presenting a problem, tend to become rationalizations. That in itself is a problem that is huge in the drug company industry. The doctors usually get the facts from their patients. Hence, the suggestion concerning taking a hand full of these posts and presenting them to the doctor. A good doctor will take a hard look when confronted with a multitude of symptoms and side effects in patients that all share commonalities. And then he has the pleasure of watching the drug rep back peddle when presented with the facts. As far as dosages go, I think effexor is an extremely volatile drug in any dosage. People who have been on it for any length of time need to discontinue it under the watchful eye of a good doctor. There are physical things that happen to the body during the withdrawal process that are in fact dangerous and could be life threatening. There are studies that confirm this. There is no established weaning process from the drug. I believe it was rushed to market for profit sake. And I go back to the fact the brain is uncharted territory. Introducing drugs that attempt to alter "state of mind" touted as offering relief for depression is some ones best guess. I'm not anti-drug but I am anti-carelessness. I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are the by-products of a serious chemical imbalance in the brain. Researchers haven't evened scratched the tip of the iceberg on this yet. Controlling the imbalance is the problem. The drug company’s answer is to throw it out there and see what happens. I don't dispute the fact that effexor is good for some but these people are in a MINORITY. And a small one at that. That's until they try to get off of it and then they join the majority. I also don't believe that these drug companies create drugs with the intent of hurting people. What I have a problem with is when they bury their heads in the sand or put blinders on when it comes to addressing the "aftermath" of their creations. Then they are hurting people. The doctors can't be blamed but they can be educated by their patients, not by the drug company reps.
>
> I've also looked at Marilyns posts...GOOD JOB. No one can dispute the facts!!!! Don't let up. Don't be to surprised when you see a segment on one of televisions renowned evening news magazines concerning effexor. I know, that at this time, there is some real heavy investigating going on.
>
> Also, keep tabs on your overall health. This will be important in the future.
>
> This post should bring them out of the woodwork.
> Can't wait to see the responses to this one.
>
> Regards,
> Leo
Posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 8:26:50
In reply to Re: Pamela...Marilyn and everyone else........, posted by Denny on April 20, 2001, at 0:55:40
> The point is I have gone off Effexor numerous times and felt so awful when I relasped into depression that I have to start taking it again! When I've stopped taking it cold turkey or tapered off too quickly I experience those withdrawl symptoms also: although I find them to be a minor annoyance compared to the anxiety, depression and irritability of mental illness! Dont be hoodwinked by critics who have unknown agendas.
Hi Denny,
I haven't reponded to any of your previous threads, they all seem to say pretty much the same thing..... with the exception of the comment
"Don't be hoodwinked by critics who have unknown agendas >"
May I ask what that would mean, as it doesn't make any sense to me. Please give me an example of an "unknown agenda".
Thanks, Pamela
Posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 12:49:35
In reply to effexor and drinking, posted by Jane on April 15, 2000, at 4:01:54
Posted by Snuffy on April 20, 2001, at 14:12:11
In reply to Re: effexor and drinking, posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 12:49:35
>
> Copied from this website....
> http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/mcabinet/EffexorXR.html
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Can EFFEXOR XR be used safely in patients who consume alcohol?
>
> EFFEXOR XR has not been shown to increase the alcohol-induced impairment of mental and motor skills. Nevertheless, advise patients taking EFFEXOR XR to avoid alcohol.
> ---------------------------------------
>
> My personal thought: Alcohol dehydrates you. Effexor dehydrates you. Be VERY careful, if you get too dehydrated it can cause major problems and become a nasty cycle (you're dehydrated so you can't keep liquids down, so you throw up, so you get more dehydrated, so you can't keep liquids down....etc.).
>
> I just started on this stuff, right now I'm so damn shakey and dopey, I hate it. And I gotta double this dose on monday. :(
> Did ANYONE start directly at 75mgs, or did most of you folks start at 37.5?
>
> sl
>
> > I started taking effexor about 4 weeks ago (and still have the side effects of nausea, sleepiness, headaches and loss of appetite). I've tried aropax and zoloft (both which made me really sick) and doxepin for about a year (which didn't make me sick but didn't actually help_
> > Just wondering if anyone knows about the effects of drinking and taking certain drugs when on effexor. Is it too risky?
> > I drank the other weekend and just felt a bit worse than usual.
> > Thanks if anyone can helpI just started effexor @37.5mg. I'm to take that for 7 days then go to 75mg for 7 days then 150mg for 7 then 150mg twice per day. So far I haven't had any side effects ... fingers crossed!!
Posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 14:31:54
In reply to Re: effexor and drinking, posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 12:49:35
>
> Copied from this website....
> http://www.athealth.com/Consumer/mcabinet/EffexorXR.html
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Can EFFEXOR XR be used safely in patients who consume alcohol?
>
> EFFEXOR XR has not been shown to increase the alcohol-induced impairment of mental and motor skills. Nevertheless, advise patients taking EFFEXOR XR to avoid alcohol.
> ---------------------------------------
>
> My personal thought: Alcohol dehydrates you. Effexor dehydrates you. Be VERY careful, if you get too dehydrated it can cause major problems and become a nasty cycle (you're dehydrated so you can't keep liquids down, so you throw up, so you get more dehydrated, so you can't keep liquids down....etc.).
>
> I just started on this stuff, right now I'm so damn shakey and dopey, I hate it. And I gotta double this dose on monday. :(
> Did ANYONE start directly at 75mgs, or did most of you folks start at 37.5?
>
> sl
>
> > I started taking effexor about 4 weeks ago (and still have the side effects of nausea, sleepiness, headaches and loss of appetite). I've tried aropax and zoloft (both which made me really sick) and doxepin for about a year (which didn't make me sick but didn't actually help_
> > Just wondering if anyone knows about the effects of drinking and taking certain drugs when on effexor. Is it too risky?
> > I drank the other weekend and just felt a bit worse than usual.
> > Thanks if anyone can help
Hopefully (in my iopinion) all doctors start their patients off on the 37.5, I think that is why they made it. You may want to ask for the 37.5 Samples, doctors have hundreds. They also havr starter packs. One week 37.5 and then 75.
As for thr drinking, I am not much of a drinker but when I was on Effexor (full does), I wanted to "drink". Go figure...I felt that way on Prozac when I took it years ago for a short time, but I thought that was becasue it felt like speed to me.
I strongly suggest you do not drink while on any kind of mind altering drug. Opinion only!Good Luck,
Pamela
Posted by sl on April 20, 2001, at 14:57:48
In reply to Re: effexor and drinking, posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 14:31:54
Posted by mstar on April 20, 2001, at 15:54:12
In reply to Leo It's Mercy! What woodwork? Huh? » Leo, posted by Mercy_M on April 20, 2001, at 14:37:49
Mercy,
Please don't let the negative remarks scare you off from effexor. Everyone reacts differently and everyone has different symptoms. Everyone hates being on medications, and they are scary, but deep down, if you really need them, you know it. I would hate that this board would make you give up on your recovery through antidepressants. TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR!!! These posts are not doctors! Not all doctors are great, but the decision to go off your medication should not be one to take lightly. Be good to yourself and don't be scared. I have had a positive experience so far. And if you have been ok so far, I would stick it out. Depression is a serious disease with serious consequences. Please continue to get help!
Best-
Ms
> > > Hi Leo,
> > >
> > > You have scared the hell out of me with your Effexor stories. I have been on 75mg for about 3 months. How do I start getting off this stuff. It has made me a much easier person to live with. I don't fly into crazy rages over the silliest little things. Is there another drug you could suggest? I'm scared to go off it and return to my hateful, angry, dark self. Can you share your insight with me?
> > >
> > > Mercy McMaster
> >
> >
> >
> > I SAID THEY'D COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK, DIDN'T I?
> > YA JUST GOTTA LOVE THESE GUYS.
> Leo I'm not sure what you mean about the whole woodwork thing. I just found this site lastnight from my sympatico search engine. I live in Western Canada and Have only started EFXR 3 months ago. About the time you started to taper off. The reason I have asked for your guidance is because you make a lot of posts and your reaction to the drug scared me. This is serious to me. It is not a stupid joke or a flake from whatever woodworks you think I came out of. My depression was triggered by my fathers violent death 7 years ago and what seemed to be a month long bout of PMS.(Every DAMN Month!) I was slowly and meanly lashing out at all those who I'm supposed to love. I still feel depressed on the EFXR but the anger and rage has subsided. I'm also taking Xanax for the occasional PMS outbreaks. I have totally gone from feeling like things are better to "Oh my god! Have I further screwed myself by taking this stuff. I totally trusted my Doctor to know what I needed. He is the first Doctor that never just dismissed my symptoms to foolishness. He said we could work on this problem together. I'm so upset to find all these side effects that result from trying to get off the effexor. What dosage were you on befor you decided to stop? I am for real and can prove it if you e-mail me. Please don't dismiss me as foolish. I need to know how to withdraw off this med. I'm a little hesitant to share my findings with my doctor. I need to handle this myself. Try something herbal or homeopathic. Just get back to me. Thanx, Mercy McMaster
>
> mercy_mcmaster@alberta.com
Posted by Anxious-Man on April 20, 2001, at 17:29:45
In reply to Effexor and Klonapin, posted by Anxious-Man on April 19, 2001, at 18:20:50
Hi Mercy,
I don't understand why some people here have to be rude or arrogant or dismissive. The comments about 'coming out of the woodwork'...What? It's just uncalled for and gauche.
And, not all doctors are reliable. Think about this, and I don't want to scare you, but...what is the doctor's interest in your recovery? What is his/her stake in all of this? The oath that they take? Why would the doc. want you to recover at all? To lose a patient? To lose income? Also, the majority of these doctors use us, in ways, like guinea pigs. They have no idea of the actual effects because they've never experienced them. How can they be that sympathetic? They certainly can't be empathetic. This is why we need to share our information as the people who ACTUALLY have to deal with the consequences and effects. I hope that things work out for you.
I, myself, am just starting Effexor. My doctor told me to take the 37.5mg per day. I agreed. I am instead taking 18.75mg per day. I want to build up slowly. I don't want to have panic attacks and hallucinations as I did with Prozac. Also, I take 3mg of Klonapin per day (Have for a while). So, we'll see what happens.
Best of luck to you,
Anxious-Man
Posted by Pamela on April 20, 2001, at 18:41:01
In reply to Regarding: Woodworking!!! This is for Mercy..., posted by Anxious-Man on April 20, 2001, at 17:29:45
> Hi Mercy,
> I don't understand why some people here have to be rude or arrogant or dismissive. The comments about 'coming out of the woodwork'...What? It's just uncalled for and gauche.
> And, not all doctors are reliable. Think about this, and I don't want to scare you, but...what is the doctor's interest in your recovery? What is his/her stake in all of this? The oath that they take? Why would the doc. want you to recover at all? To lose a patient? To lose income? Also, the majority of these doctors use us, in ways, like guinea pigs. They have no idea of the actual effects because they've never experienced them. How can they be that sympathetic? They certainly can't be empathetic. This is why we need to share our information as the people who ACTUALLY have to deal with the consequences and effects. I hope that things work out for you.
> I, myself, am just starting Effexor. My doctor told me to take the 37.5mg per day. I agreed. I am instead taking 18.75mg per day. I want to build up slowly. I don't want to have panic attacks and hallucinations as I did with Prozac. Also, I take 3mg of Klonapin per day (Have for a while). So, we'll see what happens.
> Best of luck to you,
> Anxious-ManAnxious-Man,
Though I don't feel the need to defend Leo, as he has been a great help to me and probably many others. You might consider going back and reading some of his prior threads.
He bases his threads on "facts" and "personal" experience and I don't think it is meant to sound arrogant.
What I believe he meant by "they are coming out of the woodwork" is that the drug companies plant people on this site to try and diffuse what us "sufferers" are going through. Food for thought. I am sure he meant no offense.
Thanks,
Pamela
Posted by Leo on April 20, 2001, at 20:22:00
In reply to Leo It's Mercy! What woodwork? Huh? » Leo, posted by Mercy_M on April 20, 2001, at 14:37:49
Mercy,
I do apologize for my response to your post. I have, in the past, been the subject of "damage control" by others on this site that have more than just a users agenda. Quite honestly, I did not take your post seriously, hence my response. Those of us that have been posting here for a while have a better understanding of where I was coming from. I am sorry if I offended you.
Let's start over. First, my posts, as well as the others are not by any means focused on scaring anybody. The are ment to create awareness. We are all people who have had different experiences using the drug. The majority of the experiences have been unfavorable, many to the extreme. The posts speak for themselves. There are thousands of people around the world on this drug. In a minority of these patients the drug has a positive effect. It did for me when I first started taking it 5 years ago. However, this positive effect was short lived and other problems began to arise. The depression was abated for a short period of time. Then it started sneaking back into my daily routine. Now the doctor’s answer to this was to increase the dosage. I didn't take his advice and maintained the dose originally prescribed. I lived on the edge with depression. Some days were good, others bad. Along with this came some other "symptoms" that did not exist prior to taking effexor. Major fatigue, a nasty disposition, long periods of sleep followed by even longer periods of sleeplessness, severely aching muscles and a general apathetic approach to daily living. I didn't care if I got up and dressed. I didn't care if the bills didn't get paid and so on. And, as I'm on the drug, I seem to begin to further retreat into myself and from the outside world. Not good for what I do. I saw everything that was going on. I knew it and didn't care. And I had no viable reason to be this way. So I decided to make some changes to improve my life. One was to get off the effexor. You can read my previous posts concerning that experience. As I weaned off the drug, for what took almost an entire year, I started feeling much better. I was coming back to life. During the weaning process I was on and off the drug because of the severity of the withdrawal. And, quite honestly, the withdrawal scared the hell out of me. I had know idea what was going on. I thought that something else was wrong with me. I has no clue about the withdrawal effects that surrounded effexor. As I was on and off of the drug during the weaning process I noticed that the "depression" seemed more intense when taking the drug than when not, however, the lessoned depression was superceded by the severe withdrawal. Now that I am completely off the drug I feel fantastic. I'm having fun. No depression, no anxiety, no fear, no apathy, no nothing. And I see the same trend in hundreds of posts on the internet from people who have broken away from this drug.
Now lets talk about your concerns. First, I'm not a doctor and would not ever suggest a medication to replace something else.
Second, if the effexor has abated all the things you have expressed.........why change now?
What you need to be well aware of is the stealthiness of the drug. Reading these posts will help you recognize when the drug is hurting you more than helping you. This trend usually begins to be recognizable right around the six-month mark of taking the drug and then there appears to be a fast relapse back to the emotions that triggered the medication in the first place.
Again, the doctor’s response to this is to increase the dosage. More depression....more medication. This might be the answer with other meds out there but I don't think it applies to effexor.The third thing your are going to have to deal with are the short and long-term effects the drug has on your body. This, in all cases I have researched, is inescapable. The drug will have a negative effect on your physical body.
Finally, your will have withdrawal effects. To get an idea of what to expect, miss one or two doses of the medication and you'll get a good taste of the withdrawal.
If you are having problems with your doctor understanding your fear, print out a handful of these posts and take them to him. If he does not respond in a way that makes your feel better about the medication....find a new doctor. Do not attempt to stop taking this medication without medical supervision. There is a weaning process that must be planned and followed. And it's good to have a doctor you trust to call if
the withdrawal becomes frightening as it has with most of us.Again, I am heartily sorry for my original response to your post and hope that this has helped you in some way
Regards,
Leo
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