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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Beca on April 2, 2001, at 22:03:10
In reply to Re: question about depakote, posted by safira on April 2, 2001, at 21:18:43
Hi, Here are a few more ideas about anti convulsants. I am bipolar 1 with extreme manic high and depressant lows. I am on three anticonvulsants for my bipolar disorder, lamotrigine 200mg HS(lamictal)for my depression, neurontin 3600mg TID(gabapentin) for my mania, and topamax 600mg HS for both my mania and depression. I am also on and antipsychotic risperdal (respiridone)6mg to help with psychosis and mania. This coctail seems to be working very well for me now although it took some getting used to as well as some fine tuning. I also take Nozinan 25 mg for sleep when I am manic...when I'm depressed I have no problem with sleep. Hope this is of some help, Rebecca
Posted by kathee on April 3, 2001, at 15:04:13
In reply to mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by paul on November 26, 1998, at 8:21:48
I have taken Klonopin for over 10 years. While beneficial thru a debilitating battle with extreme anxiety and panic, its shortcomings far outweigh the benefits. My maximum dose was 2 mg. I am now trying to kick it, and it has been 4 months. I am now at .5 mg. One would think you could do that amount quickly. No way. You can expect your anxiety to rebound (that is why some therapy is imperative, so you know how to deal with it when it returns, not easy), be very physically uncomfortable, agitated, nervous, unable to sleep, and generally miserable. I consider to have lost 10 years due to this drug. Although everyone must determine on their own what is best for them, I encourage extreme caution with this med. Your MD may not tell you everything, or may give you misleading info. Mine told me it was non addictive. This medication is serious business, I cannot stress enough how much I wish I had never heard the word Klonopin. Thanks to all of your input. Eye opening is an understatement. One has a feeling of being all alone when they are caught in the cycle of addiction. You can't get it til you have been there.
Posted by safira on April 3, 2001, at 23:44:25
In reply to Re: question about depakote » safira, posted by Beca on April 2, 2001, at 22:03:10
Thanks, Rebecca, for your reply. Sounds like you are on a lot of medicine and I hope they keep working for you. I wanted to ask you and anyone else about the exact personality change that occurs when someone is in the manic stage. My relative has become more angry, belligerant, unusually happy/positive, has too much energy, speeks more and with great rapidity at times, etc. The personality change that concerns me the most right now is that they are losing their inhibitions quickly, this person is usually reserved around other people. I hope I don't inherit bi-polarism since I've allready inherited (I know that depression is also enviromnental) my family unipolar depression. Keep the faith.
Posted by Beca on April 4, 2001, at 11:51:50
In reply to Re: question about depakote, posted by safira on April 3, 2001, at 23:44:25
Hi Safira,
In regards to personilty changes I will describe to you a typical manic phase to you for me. It starts out with no sleep, then I get anxious and full of energy, Which leads in to and inability to not being able to stop my self from stopping to do things, even small things. Then my mood changes I get angry but at the same time euphoric. I get rapid speech and I feel that I feel that I have to talk all the time, which is unuasual for me because I am usually a more quiet person. My speech also gets louder. My libido increases which sometimes makes me very promiscuous which is also very unlike me. I also get very child-like and playful. With some manic episodes I get psychotic and out of touch with reality. I get commanding voices and delusions.
For your sake I too hope you don't inherit bipolar disorder, but at the least if you did you would have an excellent working knowledge of the illness. The do say that it does start with a depressive episode before the manic and usually the manic phase happens before your late 20s, so if your past this stage in your life you may be lucky.
Hope some of this info is helpful, Rebecca
Posted by safira on April 6, 2001, at 22:27:28
In reply to Re: question about depakote, posted by Beca on April 4, 2001, at 11:51:50
Thank you Beca, for your reply. My relative is going through some of what you describe. Her foot/leg edema is worse. Good luck to you.
Posted by queenb on April 17, 2001, at 8:26:46
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by kathee on April 3, 2001, at 15:04:13
> Hello all,
I have been taking 600 mg of nuerontin and .5mg of xanax for anxiety and cyclothymia. I was just switched yesterday to 900 mg of neurontin and 1.0 mg of Klonopin. i was switched because the klonopin lasts longer than the xanax and I am still cycling. Just a couple days ago i was totally full of energy and out of control. The world, including myself, was not moving fast enough. I was becoming extremely irritable and frustrated. Does that happen to anyone?? Now I feel restless and dont want to really be around anyone. Go figure. That is the way things work. Anyway - I am reading such horrible things about klonopin and its liklihood of being so addicting. Has anybody ever taken this combination before....nuerontin and klonopin. What were the outcomes???? Some feedback please----that would be great.
Thanks
Queenb
Posted by Annabelle on April 17, 2001, at 9:32:23
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by queenb on April 17, 2001, at 8:26:46
Hi Queenb,
Hmmm... you will have all sorts of answers about the klonopin, I am sure. Could you be having a 'withdrawal' from Xanax??? I don't know how long it stays in the system.
I have been taking anywhere to .5 to 1 mg of klonopin at night for the last 3 years. And I was put on Neurontin in January. My case will be a little different, because I take these two drugs for muscle pain. The Neurontin has helped a great deal, but two doctors told me to stay on the klonopin as well. I am also on Celexa and Wellbutrin for depression. My neck is terribly messed up, and this is the cause of the muscle pain. The combination has to be right for you. All I know is that I will take whatever works. If Klonopin is addictive, that is OK for now, it works. But I have been warned....do not try to go off of it without a doctor's help.
Let us know if you feel better. Now that I think of it, I was sort of tired and out of sorts when I started the Neurontin. Don't know if it was me or the new drug.
Take care...
Be well.
Annie
Posted by queenb on April 17, 2001, at 11:13:19
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by Annabelle on April 17, 2001, at 9:32:23
Thanks Annie...
Just wanted to let you know that when i started taking neurontin i was very out of it for a couple days. Now I am just tired all the time but I am still capable of having my ups. Am in one now. Im not sure if its the xanax or the neurontin that makes me tired. I haven't started the klonopin yet. will soon. we will see what that does to me. I just hope that i can get rid of my fits of rage and extreme irritability. i can tolerate my hyperness and my times of extreme energy....its the irritability that gets me. im so out of control with energy that people are just in my way and they don't do things fast enough. of course then they just get on my nerves. now my mind is going way too fast. just ramble about everything. one subject to the other. guess maybe im doing that now. i guess thats better than when i don't have the energy to say anything. anyhow....thanks for yourinput.queenb
Posted by JOEI on April 17, 2001, at 17:20:45
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by queenb on April 17, 2001, at 11:13:19
I,m taking 125mg of lamictal with .5mg twice a day
feel great very stable lots of energy. tried neru
topimax,felt awfull lazy no spunk.No zest
bored.
Posted by Kingfish on April 17, 2001, at 21:09:14
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by JOEI on April 17, 2001, at 17:20:45
JOEI:
What was it like to switch from the Topamax/Neurotin to Lamictal? What's the other med you are on?
I'm on Top/Neuro/Celexa now. Feeling very stable but am having some trouble with sedation.
Thanks!
- K.
Posted by SalArmy4me on April 18, 2001, at 15:20:37
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc.... » JOEI, posted by Kingfish on April 17, 2001, at 21:09:14
The Lamictal would be a lot better than Topamax as far as sedation; i've never heard of people complaining about long-term sedation with Lamictal.
> JOEI:
>
> What was it like to switch from the Topamax/Neurotin to Lamictal? What's the other med you are on?
>
> I'm on Top/Neuro/Celexa now. Feeling very stable but am having some trouble with sedation.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - K.
Posted by jimmygold70 on April 19, 2001, at 9:19:22
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by queenb on April 17, 2001, at 8:26:46
Reconsider Klopopin - it can really get people out of control. Also, Neurontin might be an effective drug, but it is not well established for rapid cycling. Try Depakote or Tegretol which are far more established.
Also, you can take an antipsychotic such as Risperdal for some time.
Jimmy
> > Hello all,
> I have been taking 600 mg of nuerontin and .5mg of xanax for anxiety and cyclothymia. I was just switched yesterday to 900 mg of neurontin and 1.0 mg of Klonopin. i was switched because the klonopin lasts longer than the xanax and I am still cycling. Just a couple days ago i was totally full of energy and out of control. The world, including myself, was not moving fast enough. I was becoming extremely irritable and frustrated. Does that happen to anyone?? Now I feel restless and dont want to really be around anyone. Go figure. That is the way things work. Anyway - I am reading such horrible things about klonopin and its liklihood of being so addicting. Has anybody ever taken this combination before....nuerontin and klonopin. What were the outcomes???? Some feedback please----that would be great.
> Thanks
> Queenb
Posted by queenb on April 19, 2001, at 12:26:46
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by jimmygold70 on April 19, 2001, at 9:19:22
>I have been on klonopin for 2 days now and off xanax. i feel very not at ease. Very ancie, i guess you could say. Very nervouse feeling. Is this because i am switching medications??? Im not sure i like klonopin. I also feel very tired. My mind is racinf though. I am goin through spurts of extreme hyperness to restlessness throughout an 8 hour work day. what is up?
Queenb
Posted by jimmygold70 on April 19, 2001, at 13:30:52
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by queenb on April 19, 2001, at 12:26:46
Maybe you're taking too little Klonopin. How much are you taking ? How much Xanax you used to take ?
> >I have been on klonopin for 2 days now and off xanax. i feel very not at ease. Very ancie, i guess you could say. Very nervouse feeling. Is this because i am switching medications??? Im not sure i like klonopin. I also feel very tired. My mind is racinf though. I am goin through spurts of extreme hyperness to restlessness throughout an 8 hour work day. what is up?
>
> Queenb
Posted by queenb on April 19, 2001, at 14:53:47
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by jimmygold70 on April 19, 2001, at 13:30:52
> I was only taking 05mg of xanax a day. i am taking 1.0klonopin a day.
Posted by jimmygold70 on April 21, 2001, at 8:49:18
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc...., posted by queenb on April 19, 2001, at 14:53:47
So the Klonopin dose is allright.Some sources of mine state that 1mg Klonopin=1mg Xanax, some say that 2mg Klonopin=1mg Xanax, and some say the very opposite: 1mg Klonopin = 2mg Xanax (I tend to agree to the latter). Anyway, you're on the safe side.
> > I was only taking 05mg of xanax a day. i am taking 1.0klonopin a day.
Posted by Ryan on April 22, 2001, at 21:56:01
In reply to Re: mood disorders/klonopin,depakote,neurontin etc, posted by MrZest on December 10, 1998, at 10:26:21
I have social phobia, major depression, and ocd. I've used Effexor XR, Zoloft, Gabitril, Klonopin, Adderall, Paxil, Buspar and Celexa.
Effexor worked best and controlled more symptoms than anything else. I used 300mg. per day. My problem is that I am afraid to take any medication anymore. I read a study that stated that Prozac, Zoloft, Pondimin, and Meridia change the shape of seretonin receptors in the brains of rats after only 14 days of administration of extremely high doses. It isn't known if these changes are permanent or harmful. I'm angry that this study wasn't done BEFORE the drugs were released. I thought these studies were done before the drugs are cleared by the FDA. I'm now scared of taking ANYTHING because of this. If anyone knows of other research on this subject or other ways of treating my problems PLEASE post.
Posted by stjames on April 22, 2001, at 22:32:30
In reply to Longterm safety of SSRI's and other psych. drugs, posted by Ryan on April 22, 2001, at 21:56:01
> I have social phobia, major depression, and ocd. I've used Effexor XR, Zoloft, Gabitril, Klonopin, Adderall, Paxil, Buspar and Celexa.
> Effexor worked best and controlled more symptoms than anything else. I used 300mg. per day. My problem is that I am afraid to take any medication anymore. I read a study that stated that Prozac, Zoloft, Pondimin, and Meridia change the shape of seretonin receptors in the brains of rats after only 14 days of administration of extremely high doses. It isn't known if these changes are permanent or harmful. I'm angry that this study wasn't done BEFORE the drugs were released. I thought these studies were done before the drugs are cleared by the FDA. I'm now scared of taking ANYTHING because of this. If anyone knows of other research on this subject or other ways of treating my problems PLEASE post.James here....
How do you know these changes are harmful ? Why do you think they are ? Something has to change if a drug is to be effective. The changes you mention are at least 50 years from us understanding what they really mean. Do we follow
Chicken Littles logic, be scared of everything we don not understand. So we don't give people these drugs because of something that happens that we will not understand for 100 years. Even though people have been taking AD's for 50 yrs we pull them due to something happening at the micron level. We allow more people to suffer and die due to mental illness, no because of big issues like toxisity and mutations but worry to death about sometyhing at the micron level. STUPID.Please find something else to worry about. Running out of matter in this system/univiverce
or the balance of matter to expansion changing so
a big big bang or implosion and w are all gone has far more info on it than changes to seretonin receptors. Look up the "Theory of everything"When you can answer these questions you can start worring about seretonin receptors.
1) What do the they look like
2) What do they do
3 What does their structure look like through out their life
4) How does structure relate to function
5) Account for being able to function normaly with 90% loss of seretonin receptorsJames who is very tired of this thread coming up again. Worry about what you know and can prove. Don't worry about little facts that we are 50-100
yrs from beginning to understand. I also do not understand why you an angry, all kind of tests were done, tests where we understand what the results mean. Tests that give results that we are no where close the understaning proves nothing. There is no point is being afraid fo what we don't understand.James
Posted by kid47 on April 23, 2001, at 10:04:29
In reply to Longterm safety of SSRI's and other psych. drugs, posted by Ryan on April 22, 2001, at 21:56:01
> I have social phobia, major depression, and ocd. I've used Effexor XR, Zoloft, Gabitril, Klonopin, Adderall, Paxil, Buspar and Celexa.
> Effexor worked best and controlled more symptoms than anything else. I used 300mg. per day. My problem is that I am afraid to take any medication anymore. I read a study that stated that Prozac, Zoloft, Pondimin, and Meridia change the shape of seretonin receptors in the brains of rats after only 14 days of administration of extremely high doses. It isn't known if these changes are permanent or harmful. I'm angry that this study wasn't done BEFORE the drugs were released. I thought these studies were done before the drugs are cleared by the FDA. I'm now scared of taking ANYTHING because of this. If anyone knows of other research on this subject or other ways of treating my problems PLEASE post.
Hi Ryan. I understand your concern about taking meds. I also have taken lots of different mood altering drugs some legal some not. I am so much better off with these meds (the legal ones) & can enjoy a fairly "normal" existence which I could not have without them. I try not to look to far ahead & am most content just taking it "a day at a time".The first thing I check about drug studies is who is paying for it. When the sugar industry finances a study to determine if "Nutra sweet" sugar substitute causes cancer, I am going to be a little suspect of the results. Also comparing results of a rat given 5 times it's body weight daily of a certain drug & that of a human consuming a far more reasonable dose might prove tricky. I am glad testing continues & think continuing research is our best hope but I do take the results of these studies with a grain of salt.
If you feel you are better off with the meds than by all means continue taking them. Please don't let
sensational headlines & fishing expedition type studies scare you away from the very thing that can make life worth living. Take care
Posted by willow on April 23, 2001, at 10:13:29
In reply to Re: Longterm safety of SSRI's and other psych. drugs, posted by stjames on April 22, 2001, at 22:32:30
I too am having success with Effexor. My condition was controlling my life before this medication. I was severly limited. Now I am functioning; would I give this up for something can happen in the future? Probably not! For something that may or may not happen? NO WAY!
As we get older the quanity of life decreases, trying to preserve or maintain quality is more important in my opinion.
Regarding James thoughts on worrying about the expanding thing, I've actually had a spell where this caused me quite a bit of anxiety. : )
Willow
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2001, at 14:47:03
In reply to Longterm safety of SSRI's and other psych. drugs, posted by Ryan on April 22, 2001, at 21:56:01
Hi Ryan.
I am not sure what you read. I think the changes in neurotransmitter receptors you read about are those that are supposed to happen with these drugs. It is thought that it is exactly these changes, and changes like them, that are responsible for how antidepressants work. If you notice, these changes became apparant at 14 days, the same amount of time delay that is needed for antidepressants to begin working. Some doctors think that the change in the sensitivity or numbers of these receptors represents an adjustment made to a system that is not regulated properly. Scientists really don't know yet.
I hope this helps to allay your fears. People have been taking those antidepressant drugs that have changed receptor sensitivity for over 40 years. Some of them have been smiling for that long.
- Scott
> My problem is that I am afraid to take any medication anymore. I read a study that stated that Prozac, Zoloft, Pondimin, and Meridia change the shape of seretonin receptors in the brains of rats after only 14 days of administration of extremely high doses. It isn't known if these changes are permanent or harmful. I'm angry that this study wasn't done BEFORE the drugs were released. I thought these studies were done before the drugs are cleared by the FDA. I'm now scared of taking ANYTHING because of this. If anyone knows of other research on this subject or other ways of treating my problems PLEASE post.
Posted by Doo on April 23, 2001, at 21:04:58
In reply to Re: Longterm safety of SSRI's and other psych. drugs » Ryan, posted by SLS on April 23, 2001, at 14:47:03
Hello Ryan,
I too have this fear and I try to live with it. I tried a number of meds, and I take a small dose of zyprexa. I know that med can lead to certain problems. Some days I feel that taking it is wrong. Wrong for my organism. I don't have any answer for you, I can only share your fears and doubts. I find it hard to accept the fear, but I think it's better to act this way, rather than make myself believe that there's no danger at all.
For me, the better way to approach the question rationnaly is a question of risk vs benefits. If the benefits are higher, then let's continue. Of course, the risks are sometimes difficult to evaluate... Especially when you try to see long-term use. The benefits can hopefully be more palpable. But who says you have to take the meds for a long time? I take meds to help me, but I hope I'll one day be able to live without them.
Take care,
Doo.> My problem is that I am afraid to take any medication anymore. I read a study that stated that Prozac, Zoloft, Pondimin, and Meridia change the shape of seretonin receptors in the brains of rats after only 14 days of administration of extremely high doses. It isn't known if these changes are permanent or harmful. I'm angry that this study wasn't done BEFORE the drugs were released. I thought these studies were done before the drugs are cleared by the FDA. I'm now scared of taking ANYTHING because of this. If anyone knows of other research on this subject or other ways of treating my problems PLEASE post.
Posted by JCB on June 22, 2001, at 0:58:18
In reply to just advice, posted by Ellen on August 8, 1999, at 6:34:35
I recently was prescribed Klonopin to deal with the stresses of having a serious chronic illness recently diagnosed. I also am a professional mental health counselor who's been working with drug/alcohol addicted clients for over 5 years now. After reading all the opinions on what is or isn't addictive, I thought I might share my experience in treating my addicted clients. As far as the benzos (klonapin, xanax, valium, etc) withdrawal is serious if you've taken a high enough dose for a long enough time. I've had clients that were taking 6-10 pills a day if not more for years. They usually get detoxed in a hospital over a 2 week period and are given a comperable drug to help manage the withdrawal symptoms. Here is my point. I've had MANY clients VERY addicted to benzos and most of their addiction (after being detoxed of course) was purely psychological addiction. I'm not saying they didn't feel anxiety, I'm sure they were, but it wasn't withdrawal, but rather their perception of life's struggles w/out anti-anxiety medication to buffer normal day to day stress that we all otherwise learn to deal with w/out medication. I've had great success in treating these clients using a variety of cognative-behavioral therapies, mostly in conjunction with family or peer group support. To sum this up, I do believe it is possible to "get off" of any drug you feel you are addicted to. I have had clients who were addicted to EXTREMELY addictive substances such as methadone (more addictive than heroin if you can believe it!) get off the stuff. I suggest that if you're having trouble getting off a drug, you consider seeking treatment at a good chemical dependency program in your city. It would be worth the try if it works for you.
Posted by Annabelle on June 22, 2001, at 6:30:09
In reply to Addictive meds in general, posted by JCB on June 22, 2001, at 0:58:18
> I recently was prescribed Klonopin to deal with the stresses of having a serious chronic illness recently diagnosed.
Hi and THANK YOU for your words of wisdom. Finding this board was eye-opening for me as I didn't realize these drugs were used in such a wide capacity.
I have been taking Klonopin .5 once a day and more recently Neurontin 2 x 300 2xday for extreme muscle pain.
Klonopin has been working for years until lately. Now my neurologist is finally sending a referral to the Pain Clinic so that I will be able to have a Botox shot to control the spasms that have been driving me nutty for years.
Good luck to you in your search for relief. Please keep us posted.
Annie
Posted by gilbert on June 22, 2001, at 10:30:37
In reply to Re: Addictive meds in general » JCB, posted by Annabelle on June 22, 2001, at 6:30:09
JCB,
I have been sober for fifteen years and when I was using would snort eat or drink any mood altering chemical I could get my hands on. I also suffer from panic and anxiety. About 2 years ago I began trying meds. The only drugs that help without horrendous side effects are benzos. I have some guilt in using them however I have been on and off of xanax for the last year and have never had any problems starting or stopping the meds. I can taper down slowly and stop....no rebound anxiety none of the horror stories you hear about. I also have never wanted to take them to get high in fact I don't feel high at all from taking them...they just get rid of the panics and make me feel normal. The benzo phobes and the attitude toward benzos needs to change. They are very effective drugs. If medically supervised they are very very safe for long term use. Even though tolerance may appear after the initial dose most people can maintenace dose with the same amount year after year. I have had every ssri and tricylcic and nsri and remeron and serzone pushed at me due to the fact that they are not addictive. I will tell you all drugs cause dependence at some level. Your body becomes used to the drug and will react if you remove it from your system. Even blood pressure drug removal causes rebound. Addiction versus dependcy is the issue. Are diabetics addicted to insulin....no. Are diabetics dependent on insulin.....yes. Some of my AA friends feel I am jeopardizing my sobriety by use of these meds. I can honestly say I would be drunk if it were not for xanax. It has been a life saver. I can drive anywhere. I am a functional dad and husband. I had my best sales year and finished first in the company last year. There are some great articles and I would direct you to this explaination of benzos specifically xanax......
http://neuro-www.harvard.edu/forum/PanicDisordersF/Xanaxexpalinedagain >html.P.S. ssri dependency is also very prevelant and coming to the forefront now that users are having withdrawal problems. Again if they taper slowly no problem. But to think that you can just cold turkey stop any of these pyscho-active drugs just to prove they are not addictive is pie in the sky.
P.S. I have never thought wow why don't I take a bunch of xanax and go hang out downtown and party. They just don't feel or work that way. I have been able to take xanax and do things I was always afraid to do I.E. visit friends in hospitals, ride elevators, be a pallbeareer at funerals. I am taking my family on a summer trip to Mackinaw island. I could not do these things without my meds. Bill Wilson the founder of AA suffered from terrible depression throughout his sobriety. After many years sober he did LSD to try to alleviate his depression. So I think some of the addiction specialist need to know that even the man responsible for starting the greatest reovery program since time began still continued to suffer and had to search out pysch-active meds for a solution.
Gil
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