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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 58. Go back in thread:
Posted by shar on February 9, 2001, at 13:39:25
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
I'm surprised to hear someone getting a Ph.D. in biochem use the following terms:
evil drug
build up a tolerance for and therefore is no longer even effective [if you build up a tolerance, increasing the dose would make it more effective, n'est ce pas?]pushers
addiction [used in a generic, non-technical way]
Just struck me as odd is all.
Shar
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 9, 2001, at 14:15:39
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit » Maxine, posted by shar on February 9, 2001, at 13:39:25
Did you notice Maxine's email address? spleenmaxine@aol.com Perhaps venting is a major pasttime or its all to rile us up. In any case, a more sedating AD instead of an agitating one like Effexor should have been tried first. Finishing a thesis is very stressfull according to friends.
> I'm surprised to hear someone getting a Ph.D. in biochem use the following terms:
>
> evil drug
>
> build up a tolerance for and therefore is no longer even effective [if you build up a tolerance, increasing the dose would make it more effective, n'est ce pas?]
>
> pushers
>
> addiction [used in a generic, non-technical way]
>
> Just struck me as odd is all.
> Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 1:27:26
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 9, 2001, at 2:00:24
> As far as the rest of the insults, take it out on the real people in your life instead of being a coward and attacking someone you don't know and can't see. This concludes my time spent at this site, reading and/or responding.
If you change your mind, please be civil here, even if you feel you've been insulted. I'm glad no one else has reponded in kind, thanks!
Bob
PS: Any follow-ups to this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 12, 2001, at 9:33:30
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Maxine on February 8, 2001, at 13:11:53
I too suffer from terrible withdrawal from Effexor - but so far it is the onhly med that helps me at all. Without it, I might not even live...
I'm afraid I agree with Markin here... you don't need to use it again, but spare a thought for those of us that it helps when nothing else does.
Nikki
Posted by brainshock on January 15, 2004, at 14:15:13
In reply to I'll testify against you » Maxine, posted by MarkinBoston on February 8, 2001, at 11:08:00
To hell with effexor. Can't you see that probably hundreds of thousands of people are now addicted to this medication, and also that many of them develop a tolerance for it causing it to no longer work for them. The withdrawl symptoms make it nearly impossible to stop taking. I am currently seeking legal action against both the doctor that gave me this medication without any warning of these problems, and also Wyeth, Inc.
Posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 14:54:07
In reply to I'll testify against you » Maxine, posted by MarkinBoston on February 8, 2001, at 11:08:00
You are the first person I have heard anything good about this drug. How long have you been on it?
> Effexor has been the only drug out of nearly a dozen that has worked for me. Getting it taken off the market would really suck. Is that what you want?
>
> I will support you in a suit against the FDA for greater truth in the FDA approved prescribing information sheets. Things like "most patients experience withdrawl symptoms that require gradual dose reduction" or "most patients experience sexual dysfunction" or "most patients experience weight gain". The last two are true for many anti-depressants but not stated.
>
Posted by PoohBear on January 16, 2004, at 12:02:12
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 14:54:07
I too have had very good results.
I believe that many who are experiencing difficulties are being over-dosed, or do not have good follow-up from their PDoc, etc.
MOST people who take any medication do NOT post on these boards. There are many, many people who are being helped not only by Effexor but other AD's, otherwise we would hear about it in the mainstream press.
TR
Posted by ST on January 17, 2004, at 4:14:47
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
Sarah
Posted by micro on January 19, 2004, at 0:06:03
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by ST on January 17, 2004, at 4:14:47
> Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
> Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
> SarahSara, many medications can cause rebound symtoms. The Key [as you stated] is that titration up or down varies greatly [which many pdocs don't realize].Pcps are less experienced and hand out benzo's and ssri's like candy. The key [as in any case] is the doctor's ability to handle their cases. Pill cutters are not uncommon and good docs know to use them on a case by case basis. There is Nothing wrong with pill cutting to reduce withdrawl. Make sure your doc knows what you are doing and maybe you will both learn something very beneficial. Best Wishes . Micro
Posted by KimberlyDi on January 19, 2004, at 16:43:03
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit » ST, posted by micro on January 19, 2004, at 0:06:03
I wonder how much of Effexor's markup price vs cost is to cover the inevitable lawsuits that occur. I've taken Effexor. I suffered through withdrawal. I learned to be very careful and smart about how I discontinue it. You won't find me banging on some lawyers door. Just wait until we can't even take anti-depressants or any drug without signing a release form first to both doctor and drug company.
> > Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
> > Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
> > Sarah
>
> Sara, many medications can cause rebound symtoms. The Key [as you stated] is that titration up or down varies greatly [which many pdocs don't realize].Pcps are less experienced and hand out benzo's and ssri's like candy. The key [as in any case] is the doctor's ability to handle their cases. Pill cutters are not uncommon and good docs know to use them on a case by case basis. There is Nothing wrong with pill cutting to reduce withdrawl. Make sure your doc knows what you are doing and maybe you will both learn something very beneficial. Best Wishes . Micro
Posted by PoohBear on January 20, 2004, at 14:12:11
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by KimberlyDi on January 19, 2004, at 16:43:03
> I wonder how much of Effexor's markup price vs cost is to cover the inevitable lawsuits that occur. I've taken Effexor. I suffered through withdrawal. I learned to be very careful and smart about how I discontinue it. You won't find me banging on some lawyers door. Just wait until we can't even take anti-depressants or any drug without signing a release form first to both doctor and drug company.
>What a breath of fresh air!
Thanks Kimberly!
TR
Posted by ivamcgoo on February 10, 2004, at 9:52:02
In reply to Effexor In The Courtroom (nm), posted by ivamcgoo on February 10, 2004, at 9:44:01
I have been on effexor xr for a approximately two years. However, the side effects have kept me from returning to work and have isolated me from family and friends. Under the "supervision" of my doctor, I have gradually reduced my daily dose to 37.5mg (from 150mg). Hot flashes, constant shock sensations, nausea, appetite loss with weight gain (figure that one out), hair loss, inconsistent and painful bowel function, increased incidence of migraine attacks, general body pain, frequent and intrusive violent dreams, insomnia, tremours, mood swings, tingling sensation in hands/feet, eye burning and twitching, sexual dysfunction (for which my doctor wanted to prescribe yet another drug), irreversable tinnitus, daily changes in vision ... and the list goes on. My life has literally been put on hold until I can purge this poison from every organ in my body; a long and tedious process. Withdrawal is deadly. My doctor is becoming unresponsive as though she is growing bored and weary of my constant complaints about the aforementioned side effects. She appears to be offended that I am researching (via internet) effexor and other drugs that have been suggested, ie: wellbutrin, remeron, etc. and tells me (with a straight face!) that she is unaware of these side effects/severe withdrawal. I am convinced that doctors, supported by drug companies, do not know, or do not care, what they are prescribing to patients in the mental health system. Due to the stigma associated with "mental health patients", our voices are weak and disregarded as though we have no worthy input of our treatment. I have been sent to psychiatrists who fall asleep before me, only to awaken asking "me" where we left off? I may be a patient of mental health, but I am not stupid. In the movie "The Hours," Virginia Woolf said, "The meanest patient, even the lowest, is allowed some say in the matter of [his] her own perscription ..." Perhaps this drug (effexor) has merit for some. But I have read too many postings on too many messages boards like this (as well as other venues), indicating that this drug is "problematic" at best, deserving of a "second look" if you will. Given the opportunity (and financial resources), I would welcome the courtroom arena!
Best regards to ALL - ivamcgoo@go.com
Posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Maxine on February 8, 2001, at 13:11:53
I hate to be the odd man out on this - so I'll through in my two cents. I went through the withdrawl and I CAN assure you it wasnt pretty, this was a year or so ago. However, clinically, Effexor is proving superior to many of the other AD's out there. Ask your doc's - dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more - the stuff just works. For me it was a miracle - it pooped out after three years, I tried it again, but to no effect. If Someone told me I could back on it and I would work the way it did before, Id gladly go through the withdrawl again and Id do it again.
Counterpoint - I also believe that the makers of effexor have completely failed in their attempts to educate doctors/consumers in the withdrawl effects. But I will bet you - that there is a very bright bio-pharm out their that is developing a drug solely for Effexor withdrawl. My port's bio-tech light so Im keeping my eyes out.
The only other point I would mention is that bringing this into a courtroom could prove absolutely fatal for many, many other benficial medications out there. I do think that there is a time and place when going before the bench has merit and value. I dont belive this to be one of those times.
Last, I would point out that advances in neurological understinding, neuro technology, bio-synthesis methods etc, are resulting in an understanding of the brain that even five years ago people would not have believed. This is where we should put our faith.Thanks for listening.
Posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:40:34
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02
Posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 8:53:37
In reply to ^5!!! Ditto (nm) » Althea8869, posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:40:34
A little further research last night told me that ,in fact, there are several companies that are in the early stages of developing medications for the SOLE purpose of withdrawing from antidepressants. I'll get the link and post it.
Posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02
"dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more -"
Well, yeah, but if it was so great and/or didn't poop out, why are lots of folk going off of it, hence the withdrawals???
Effexor was one of the best meds for me but it pooped out and coming off of it is not a walk in the park. What has it done to us, that makes the withdrawal so unpleasant???
Posted by justjustine on February 11, 2004, at 14:50:28
In reply to Re: ^5!!! Ditto, posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 8:53:37
i'm sorry, but i believe these pharmaceutical companies are not to be trusted.
who will make the drug to help us withdraw from the drug that helps us withdraw from the drug (the one we supposedly were never dependent on to begin with?)? doesn't anyone remember that heroin was introduced as an antidote to morphine addiction?
> A little further research last night told me that ,in fact, there are several companies that are in the early stages of developing medications for the SOLE purpose of withdrawing from antidepressants. I'll get the link and post it.
Posted by shadows721 on February 11, 2004, at 14:56:07
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16
I am not a chemist, but it appears to me that Effexor needs a longer half life. It dumps out the system too fast and that is responsible for these cripling withdrawal effects. That's why Prozac is helpful. Prozac's half life is several days. They don't need a withdrawal med. They need to extend the half life of the med. It seems this drug is giving the brain a rush of 190 proof like power and then drops to zero in a few hours. The result is like a decent into Hell.
Personally, I wouldn't dare put myself into that fix. It's not about having a strong will power. It's about chemistry. I would definately use Prozac to help. A doctor friend of mine switched to Lexapro. He didn't have the Hellish withdrawal either.
Posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 16:35:17
In reply to Re: ^5!!! Ditto, posted by justjustine on February 11, 2004, at 14:50:28
You know its interesting - I was just thinking that in a broad sense we are the generation that is doing the clinical testing for the next. With the staggering increase in knowledge about brain chemistry in just the last few years, and the greater acceptance of depression as a disease, it is believed that the next generation will have taylor made solutions. Get an MRI, few blood tests and they'll know exactly what the problem is and exactly what med(s) to give you. If you look back in time just a few decades, the number of options for treatment decreases exponentially. Not that im happy being anyones test subject, but if I knew that my child was going to suffer from depression at some point in his life, than I think the difficluties that I have had trying these different meds is, by comparison, acceptable.
With regard to the drug companies, it's the CEO's and the salesmen that I dont trust, I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for the R&D folks, who are not getting paid very much, even in the private sector, and still manage to find increasingly sophisticated and novel ways to help, and in some cases cure, serious diseases. Last night I was reading some abstracts from some Pharm study site, and one abstract was about a novel new antidepressant, now in stage one trials(so it has no name), that is proving as efficacious, if not more so, than anything currently available. The intrigueing part though, is that it has absolutely no appreciable effect on any of the neurochemicals that people associate with depression. Many people forget, or just dont realize, that our knowledege of the brain, especially as it pertains to mood/behaviour is still in its infancy - despite the incredible pace over the last few years.Anyway, had a few free minutes so I though id post. Take care.
Posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 16:58:21
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16
I quit ONLY because it raised my blood pressure too high (and I was a person with unusually low BP). Plus, it was alittle pricey.
That's all.
KDi in TX> "dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more -"
>
> Well, yeah, but if it was so great and/or didn't poop out, why are lots of folk going off of it, hence the withdrawals???
>
> Effexor was one of the best meds for me but it pooped out and coming off of it is not a walk in the park. What has it done to us, that makes the withdrawal so unpleasant???
Posted by sjb on February 12, 2004, at 6:56:59
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 16:58:21
I do not think an increase in BP is the primary reason for stopping Effexor. For sure, BP should be monitored, esp. while on this drug, as an increase is not an uncommon response. MY BP did not change much, and I too, tend to be on the low side. I'm also an athlete.
I think we have to be careful here to draw sweeping conclusions, one way or the other, based on our own, unique personal experience. What we do know, as a common problem for many people, is that withdrawal is more severe with this drug than with many others, and I reiterate, we know this because a LOT of people are getting off of it.
Posted by Emme on February 12, 2004, at 8:42:01
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 12, 2004, at 6:56:59
> I do not think an increase in BP is the primary reason for stopping Effexor.
Sounds like a good enough reason to me if it's raised too much. Kimberly said hers was raised a lot.
> I think we have to be careful here to draw sweeping conclusions, one way or the other, based on our own, unique personal experience.
It didn't sound to me like Kimberly was doing that. She just said why *she* quit.
Emme
Posted by flyingdreams on February 12, 2004, at 11:54:38
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
Here's a start, sign the petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/petition.html
Second email the media:
Posted by KimberlyDi on February 12, 2004, at 15:14:36
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you » sjb, posted by Emme on February 12, 2004, at 8:42:01
I was about to get midevil on that last poster. I know why I stopped Effexor. Not willingly! It was a great AD for me even though yes, the withdrawal is terrible.
KDi in TX
> > I do not think an increase in BP is the primary reason for stopping Effexor.
>
> Sounds like a good enough reason to me if it's raised too much. Kimberly said hers was raised a lot.
>
> > I think we have to be careful here to draw sweeping conclusions, one way or the other, based on our own, unique personal experience.
>
> It didn't sound to me like Kimberly was doing that. She just said why *she* quit.
>
> Emme
>
>
Posted by Althea8869 on February 12, 2004, at 16:38:31
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit - petition to sign first, posted by flyingdreams on February 12, 2004, at 11:54:38
Ok - I have read the petition and just want to comment on it briefly. I agree with about 95% of it.
Here is where I see some trouble.
"...and that Wyeth-Ayerst knew of these risks but failed to communicate those risks to the consumer and their physicians." --- Given that independent medical organizations did many of the trials during the initial testing for FDA approval and forwarded those results directly to the FDA or regional governing body for dissemination, Wyeth would not have been in much of a position to cover them up. SSRI discontinuation problems have been known about since long before this drug was approved. Yet the FDA never required specific documents regarding study of this. I looked today at their boiler plate, and they still dont seem to.Here's the other problem:
"we have found that the disclosure regarding the side effects and efficacy of Effexor that we were given and which is still being propagated, is significantly misleading to the consumer." This talks about side effects and efficacy, not discontinuation. I dont think it would be wise to attack Wyeth on an efficacy front- Here's an abstract from PubMed:
"Remission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.....Remission rates were: venlafaxine, 45% (382/851); SSRIs, 35% (260/748)....CONCLUSIONS: Remission rates were significantly higher with venlafaxine than with an SSRI." This was just one of many results showing it superior to SSRI's and in some cases TCA's.
The other thing is that in terms of "side-effects" which means individual responses seen during use of the drug which are directly attributable to the drug, Effexor's side effects are no worse, and in many cases better, than any of the other SSRI's.Here's what i'm driving at - the petition needs to be re-written to account for some statements that simply dont bear out. If the petition were about the severity of discontinuation symptoms and the neeed for the FDA to begin studying this and requiring drug companies to submit discontinuation trial results, than I'd actually sign it - especially given how bad mine were.
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