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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Cam W. on April 24, 2000, at 7:31:48
In reply to Has anyone successfully quit effexor? how?, posted by Anne on April 23, 2000, at 17:26:10
Anne - I haven't answered your earlier post, as the situation with having a baby while depressed is a very complicated issue. I do not feel fully comfortable with giving advice in an area that there are no absolute rights and wrongs.
*Work very closely with your doctor throughout any pregnancy (with or without antidepressants.*
I can tell you how others have been able to stop Effexor. One way is to decrease the dose as low as possible (I believe that the XR version does come in a 37.5mg dose). Once you get to the lowest dose possible, without getting the withdrawl effects, your doctor can add 10mg of Prozac daily for 1 week. Then try to stop the Effexor. If you can tolerate this, take the Prozac for another week and stop it. Prozac's long half-life will take the edge off of the withdrawl symptoms by gradually leaving your system.
But, because Prozac has a long half-life, you will have to wait 5 weeks before you consider trying to get pregnant, if you want to be drug-free.
Also, there are issues around if it is better to be depressed and have a baby, or to be treated for depression while having a baby. Is it better to have some drug in your body (and your baby's) and not be depressed or to be depressed (with high levels of cortisol in yours and your baby's body) and be antidepressant-free? I cannot answer this question for you. You and your doctor have to come to that decision. Book a long appointment with your doctor to go over these issues.
Antidepressants have been used in pregnant women for years. The "Prozac babies" (babies whose mothers were taking Prozac while pregnant) are now reaching adulthood and, so far, there are no, out of the normal problems presenting themselves.
Sorry that I cannot be of more help than this - Cam W.
Posted by steve on April 24, 2000, at 20:28:40
In reply to JUST STARTED TAKING EFFEXOR XR, posted by TANYA on January 14, 2000, at 10:48:44
hello i just started on effexor xr today i was on paxil but didnt like it
Posted by Jennifer on April 25, 2000, at 23:10:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Glenda on April 14, 2000, at 12:59:09
I know that we all react to things differently, but most of the things I have read here have scared me. I took my first dose of Effexor XR 75 mg tonight. The label said that I cannot operate heavy machinery with it, so I took it at night. My doctor told me to take it in the morning. Should I have done that? Do you get better results that way?? I am just wondering if I should deal with my symptoms without this medicine. Yikes.
Posted by BJ on April 26, 2000, at 0:44:16
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
> Hi there,
>
> Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
>
> Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> to have a lot of success...
>
> please share your thoughts on this.DON'T DO IT! DO ANYTHING ELSE, GET PSYCHOTHERAPY, HOLISTIC TREATMENTS, ANYTHING. I've been on it since 1996 (recently went to Effexor XR) and trying to get off it for over a month. This shit is powerful and ADDICTIVE. I get horrible hot flashes and EXTREME IRRITABILITY WHICH I NEVER HAD PRIOR TO GOING ON THE DRUG.
The drug companies won't tell you there are NO long-term studies -- how did FDA approve it I don't know! In animal studies, there was brain damage -- yes -- brain damage to the neurotransmittors. No one knows how antidepressants work on the brain so we're all human guinea pigs. If you're willing to be a human guinea pig and stay on it the rest of your life, go ahead and get on it. Otherwise, if you're smart, you'll stay far far away. Check out these truly enlightening readings: "washingtonian.com" (July 97 issue) and Dr. Joseph Glenmullen, MD's book "Prozac Backlash." It'll open your eyes to the realities of these so-called miracle drugs. The drug companies are interested in PROFITS, NOT PEOPLE.
Posted by Sarah on April 26, 2000, at 0:53:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by BJ on April 26, 2000, at 0:44:16
So, BJ, you are saying Not to take it? Couldn't quite understand... Sorry, I have to laugh sometimes... Anyway, when ppl put up posts like the one you just did, I usually think "what a weirdo", but I almost have to agree with you on the Effexor one. UGH!!! Hate it!! I had a horrific experience with it... YUCK, YUCK, YUCK!!!! I can not say it enough!!!
Posted by Cam W. on April 26, 2000, at 6:47:00
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Sarah on April 26, 2000, at 0:53:39
Posted by Cindy W on April 26, 2000, at 9:26:15
In reply to This is scarier than I thought , posted by Jennifer on April 25, 2000, at 23:10:39
> I know that we all react to things differently, but most of the things I have read here have scared me. I took my first dose of Effexor XR 75 mg tonight. The label said that I cannot operate heavy machinery with it, so I took it at night. My doctor told me to take it in the morning. Should I have done that? Do you get better results that way?? I am just wondering if I should deal with my symptoms without this medicine. Yikes.
Jennifer, I take Effexor-XR 375 mg/day, and take it all in the morning. It doesn't keep me from operating machinery or anything. The only problem I have since increasing the dose is problems sleeping. I don't have any other side effects I know of. Remember that the side effects vary from person to person, and you may experience none at all (esp. on a low dose). Talk with your pdoc and start slow (I started with 37.5 mg/day, then after a week, went to 75 mg/day, etc.; that seemed to minimize any side effects).
Posted by Zannah on April 26, 2000, at 12:33:26
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Sarah on April 26, 2000, at 0:53:39
> So, BJ, you are saying Not to take it? Couldn't quite understand... Sorry, I have to laugh sometimes... Anyway, when ppl put up posts like the one you just did, I usually think "what a weirdo", but I almost have to agree with you on the Effexor one. UGH!!! Hate it!! I had a horrific experience with it... YUCK, YUCK, YUCK!!!! I can not say it enough!!!
Same here-I took 37.5 daily, for about a week. It made me uncontrollably sleepy. I was in the bed 20 hours out of 24. When I told my doc, he said, STOP taking the stuff.But, I hated the idea of yet another AD not working for my depression. After sleeping for about 10 days straight I did taper off and quit the Effexor XR. That 2 weeks was probably the worst in my life, ever! General physical malaise, but accompanied by the deepest most severe depression ever.
I cannot be sure it was the Eff. withdrawal or not, but I was as close to suicidal as I have ever been. I cried constantly and was in touch with my deepest pits of (objectively) sourceless despair.
I came out of it after about 10 days from my last little shaved crumb of an Eff. XR tablet. I did not come out of my depression-just the blackest suicidal part-and man, oh, man! I was grateful for that!
That was last December, and I was so completely bummed from that experience, that I have just this week had the guts to try a new AD-Remeron.
So far, I feel nothing different. Time will tell, I guess.
Posted by Noa on April 26, 2000, at 13:21:51
In reply to Re: This is scarier than I thought , posted by Cindy W on April 26, 2000, at 9:26:15
Jennifer, please don't make your decisions based upon a few people's bad experiences with Effexor XR. Many of us have reacted badly to one or another medication, but done well on others. And the sensationalism of some authors really doesn't help matters at all.
I have been taking Effexor XR for a few years, at 375 mg/day. I take it all in the morning. I think many of the medications have labels warning against operating heavy machinery, etc. The most important thing is to see how it affects YOU. For some people, effexor can make them a bit drowsy. When I first heard this, I laughed because it was hard for me to believe that, given that it is quite activating for me and makes sleep harder. Each of us responds differently. Negative effects for me have been, difficulty falling asleep, and fidgetiness, and possibly some bladder problems. But these are dose related, it seems.
My most important advice about Effexor is to taper up gradually, starting at 37.5 mg/day. That way, the initial side effects will be minimal to nonexistent, hopefully. Same with going off of it, if that comes up. Go slow.
My understanding is that it is not addictive, per se, but does cause withdrawal symptoms, especially if you have been on higher doses for a long while. But it is not addictive in the sense that you will crave more and more of it.
BTW, how has your first day on it been so far? Keep us posted
Posted by Noa on April 26, 2000, at 13:26:04
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? NOT ME!!!, posted by Zannah on April 26, 2000, at 12:33:26
Zannah, sorry to hear of your bad experience. I know how demoralizing it can be when another AD doesn't work and you are still in despair.
I don't think it was actually withdrawal symptoms, as supposedly one week is too short a time to experience that.
GOod luck, keep us posted on how you are doing on the Remeron, and how you are doing in general.
Posted by Zannah on April 26, 2000, at 17:15:55
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? NOT ME!!!, posted by Noa on April 26, 2000, at 13:26:04
> Zannah, sorry to hear of your bad experience. I know how demoralizing it can be when another AD doesn't work and you are still in despair.
>
> I don't think it was actually withdrawal symptoms, as supposedly one week is too short a time to experience that.
>
Noa~
I have NO idea whether it was withdrawal from the Eff. that sent me spiralling downward or not.
I have spent the past yr. and a half being diagnosed w/the source(s) of chronic pain and depression. I was originally prescribed tri-cyclics and prozac (separately)to ease pain. But, I was also trying to find a way to ease my anxiety/depression. Actually it went like this: first prozac(way too activating) amytrip, nortrip, desipramine,(none of which made me feel/change anything) Celexa,(felt no difference), Wellbutrin (this helped a bit, but made me tense and exacerbated chronic muscle spasm/pain)and then...EffexorXR. The Effexor was literally like taking a handful of barbiturates, for me, anyway. It knocked me on my butt.
Oh, I also took Ritalin for a while, up to 60 mgs. a day, and it also made me sleepy.I guess I'm one of those 'parodoxical effect' reactors.I have this weird way of feeling anxious/nervous, but sleepy, all the time. I am now taking .5 mgs. clonazepam daily, propanolol (beta-bocker) 120mgs ext. release daily. The prop.is to help w/both high b.p. and chronic headaches. It is also good for anxiety. As you may know, it is often prescribed to musicians, actors, etc., to use before going on stage. Apparently it is very effective for that type of 'performance' anxiety.
And, the clonazepam is the only Rx I've tried that helped relax my muscles to any helpful extent.
And, now the Remeron. I do hope it helps. Now, that I'm on some new drug, I'll have to comb thru the Psycho-Babble archives to read up on the various reactions posters have had to latest in my series...Back to EffexorXR-yes-we are ALL different, & if Effexor had helped me, I'd still be on it, even after reading the horror stories of withdrawal.
Many drugs can cause withdrawal, few are without risk, and so it goes...Zannah
Posted by BJ on April 26, 2000, at 23:02:33
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by saint james on April 11, 2000, at 16:47:05
Has anyone here tried (consistently) any other methods for alleviating depression/ocd/other related before you started taking the Effexor? If so, what have you tried?
It makes me wonder, too, how many psychiatrists, upon meeting a patient for the first time, ask them what methods (if any) they've tried first.This whole dialogue really makes it crystal clear how INCOMPETENT many psychiatrists are and that we, as consumers, need to look at other means to help ourselves, before we start putting stuff in our bodies.
It is painfully obvious too many psychiatrists don't even both to tell us the withdrawal effects.
If they did, would we still take the drug, and if not, then they are out of a job basically?These are real questions we need to be asking ourselves before we submit to any drug. Especially one that has not had long-term studies to determine any lasting negative affects. If you read the July 97 article in the Washingtonian, you will see what I mean. It's on-line at:
www.washingtonian.com -- check it out.KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
Posted by Jennifer on April 26, 2000, at 23:50:54
In reply to Alternative Ways of dealing with Depression, posted by BJ on April 26, 2000, at 23:02:33
>There is so much doctor bashing going on at this site. Your doctors can only help as much as you ask. It is your duty to check up on drugs before you put them in your mouth. My therapist is wonderful. He would rather talk things through than give me medication. I finally came to him and told him that the sessions alone were not working. So, I tried Effexor. No Good. Now, I am going to try Zoloft. The point? There are competent doctors out there that want to help. You just have to keep searching for them.
Posted by Cam W. on April 26, 2000, at 23:52:33
In reply to Alternative Ways of dealing with Depression, posted by BJ on April 26, 2000, at 23:02:33
If you read the July 97 article in the Washingtonian, you will see what I mean. It's on-line at:
> www.washingtonian.com -- check it out.
>
> KNOWLEDGE IS POWERBJ - Perhaps you made a mistake. Which article in the July, 1997 (I presume it is 1997 and not 1897) issue of the Washingtonian are you referring to? The one on Barry Goldwater as a dyed-in-the wool Westerner?; or perhaps Mary Chapin Carpenter at home?; or Marv Alpert's mug shot?; or Author escorts tell whose nice and whose not?
I do not see any article relating to psychiatry; although there is one relating to the latest techniques of cardiologists.
Were you perhaps reading on how to get ahead by Washington's high priestess of protocol? Perhaps you have been sampling the best of the microbrews listed in another article.
BTW - You cannot read any articles in the Washintonian On-line without buying a subscription. Please recheck your date and give us a synopsis on what this supposed article said. I would also like you to include the credentials of the author of the article you are referring to. A gossip magazine is not my first choice for scientific information.
Sincerely - Cam W. - THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 27, 2000, at 2:37:46
In reply to Knowledge is Power? Re: Washingtonian 7/97, posted by Cam W. on April 26, 2000, at 23:52:33
> Were you perhaps reading on how to get ahead by Washington's high priestess of protocol? Perhaps you have been sampling the best of the microbrews listed in another article.
Just a reminder, please be civil, even to doctor-bashers. :-)
Bob
Posted by medlib on April 27, 2000, at 4:26:04
In reply to Re: Knowledge is Power?, posted by Dr. Bob on April 27, 2000, at 2:37:46
> > Were you perhaps reading on how to get ahead by Washington's high priestess of protocol? Perhaps you have been sampling the best of the microbrews listed in another article.
>
> Just a reminder, please be civil, even to doctor-bashers. :-)
>
> BobDr. Bob--Could you have pulled the trigger a tad early this time? I don't believe that Cam is ever intentionally uncivil--he's too inately kind. But, neither is he too successful at humor, sometimes. (We have that in common, you see.) Aha! Finally, proof that Cam and bob are not the same person!
In fact, I probably should ease up on Cam myself before I get in any deeper, remembering that "once burned" should be "twice shy."
All of us (including BJ) might do well to keep in mind that although knowledge may be power, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" (A. Pope).
(And then there's my personal corollary to that, "More of a little is still not much.") That's the great thing about this board, though; the synergistic effect of lots of little bits of knowledge create a "whole greater than the sum of its parts."Sorry, I seem to be suffering from a major aphorism attack.--medlib
Posted by Cam W. on April 27, 2000, at 6:48:10
In reply to Re: Tut, Tut Dr. Bob, posted by medlib on April 27, 2000, at 4:26:04
Posted by LD on April 27, 2000, at 8:12:06
In reply to Apologies to BJ, posted by Cam W. on April 27, 2000, at 6:48:10
Cam, I read the article by putting "antidepressants" in the search box on washingtonian online and it came up. Try that and see if it works for you.
LD
Posted by Rhonda Hudson on April 27, 2000, at 12:41:36
In reply to Knowledge is Power? Re: Washingtonian 7/97, posted by Cam W. on April 26, 2000, at 23:52:33
First of all, I am so glad to know that I am not alone. I have been lowering my dosage of effexor from 225mg down to 37.5mg. I have been experiencing really bad pain in my left thigh and leg, but I had no idea that it was because of the effexor, until I read some of your letters. I also have had the funny feelings in my brain kind of like pausing, I have been crying about the slightest things. I cant believe I didnt associate all of these symptoms with effexor withdrawl. I thought I was really ill with some dreadful disease. Thanks Guys, I have hope now for a full recovery. And I will pray for everyone of you! Rhonda Hudson
Posted by Melinda on April 27, 2000, at 14:02:39
In reply to Re:I did'nt know, posted by Rhonda Hudson on April 27, 2000, at 12:41:36
I have been on a very low dose of Effexor XR (75 mg/day) since late August, 1999. For me, this drug has been a miracle, even though it seemed to take awhile to truly work (about 4 months before I truly felt my depression was controlled and my olde self was back). I didn't experience many of the side effects listed in the package insert, but I did notice that I would get extraordinarily jittery about an hour after taking my once a day pill. Luckily, that tapered off after about a month and a half. Then the crazy dreams started....dreams that were long and complicated and like really weird movies playing in my head. The weirdest part is that the dreams stay with me when I wake up and I remember them in great detail, something that NEVER used to happen to me before. I also experienced a slight amount of anorgasmia and lowered libido, but those effects also tapered off. However, I've noticed if I forget to take my pill every morning at the same time, I tend to get pretty major headaches. I thought maybe I was imagining things, but after reading all of your experiences, I realize it was indeed probably caused by the medication. All these effects are not enough to make me regret taking this pill though. I have fought my way through periods of major depression all my life, starting when I was 12. Counseling and other alternative methods were usually enough to get me out of it before, but last year, I was so low that I spent most of my time staring at the wall. I literally did not care about anything, including my health, my job, my family, or my bills, and as a result, I almost lost all of it. Thank God my doctor recognized the fact that this time I needed more than just conversations. Luckily for me, I haven't needed to go to a higher dose.
I've read a lot about the withdrawal effects of Effexor and am wondering if you have all found that withdrawal causes the same effects in people who have only taken Effexor XR. Have any of you tried getting off Effexor XR when that was the only drug you had been on? I'm curious because I would like to be off the drug by the end of this year if things keep going well.
Also, to BJ- have some faith in doctors and pharmaceutical companies. As someone who has worked in the biotech field (currently for a pharmaceutical research and development firm), I've seen the years and years of testing that drugs go through before they are even looked at by the FDA. The ones the FDA actually get to look at is only a small percentage of what's out there, and the ones they actually approve are only a percentage of those. Trust me, we're not the human guinea pigs....they already tested the drug on other human guinea pigs who volunteered. And as far as long term studies....almost no drug gets tested for years and years before being released....not even allergy, pain, or cold medications.
Posted by CKT on April 27, 2000, at 14:12:52
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
As stated, I'm a newie with Effexor XR I just started yesterday on the starter kit and i am feeling a little anxious I feel like i'm on some type of speed. Is this normal? It kind of has me worried. I have tried Zoloft and Elevil and both have made me feel "racy" My doctor put me on Effexor because i am "Depressed" i don't know why and i'm tired all the time. I can't keep my eyes open and this seems to not let me sleep eventhough i keep yawning. I guess i really don't know what to expect and i'm afraid to become a "pill-popper" can anyone help me understand better please?
Posted by Cam W. on April 27, 2000, at 17:11:15
In reply to Re: Cam- how to read the article, posted by LD on April 27, 2000, at 8:12:06
> Cam, I read the article by putting "antidepressants" in the search box on washingtonian online and it came up. Try that and see if it works for you.
>
> LDThanks LD. The article was from the December,1997 issue of the Washingtonian. It was not as scathing as I thought it would be, but it did not approach the subject of antidepressants from a scientific point of view. The author was writing for the masses. A few statements that he made did stretch reality a little.
Thomas Moore (the author) states that antidepressants "routinely fail to produce clinical benefit in clinical testing". All antidepressants that have been released have worked significantly better than placebos or they would not have been released.
Moore also commented on a large placebo effect. True, some studies do have large placeo effects, but there are many explanations for these, especially when dealing with the selected group used for clinical testing. The placebo effect rate that Moore quotes (2 out of 3) is false. I have only seen one incredibly high placebo response rate of 54%. Most run in the 20% to 30% range, which I agree is high.
Moore also implies that withdrawl effects mean that antidepressants are habit forming. There is absolutely no correlation between these two concepts.
Moore uses Serzone to show that antidepressants do not work much better than placebos. He picks the worst of the clinical studies on the drug to make his point. He only talks about clinical studies of 6 weeks. We all know that it can take more than 6 weeks to fully resolve depressive symptoms in most people. Therefore, at 6 weeks, it will look like the antidepressant is working no better than placebo. Also, Serzone does not work for most people, only in a select group. He should have shown evidence for 6 month trials of any antidepressant and all would have worked significantly better than placebo.
Moore also compares clinical trial drop out rates of antidepressants with drop out rates of anticholesterol drugs. This is like comparing apples and oranges. He could have compared ADs to some heart meds and the drop out rates for the heart meds would have been much higher than the drop out rates for the ADs.
Moore also says that Ritalin and Xanax work just as well as the antidepressants for depression. True, but the side effects, addiction potential and toxicity of these drugs would not make them first line agents in depression. Xanax does bind to the GABA-A receptor, thought to have antidepressant activity.
Moore advances the stigma of ECT by falsely claiming that ECT causes "long lasting harm to the brain". This is wrong. ECT is extremely safe. ECT is the antidepressant treatment of choice in pregnant women and for people over 75 years.
Moore also shows suicide stats with ADs versus placebos. One reason that the suicide rates for people taking antidepressants is that the AD is starting to resolve the depression. A depressed person with suicidal ideation is able to act upon this ideation when the depression starts to resolve.
My take on the article.
Again, I am sorry to BJ for my sarcastic post of yesterday. I hope you can forgive me. Sincerely - Cam W.
Posted by Rhonda on April 28, 2000, at 7:17:12
In reply to Re: withdrawal, posted by Noa on April 22, 2000, at 13:20:30
> I think when a Dr. prescribes Effexor, while explaining the side effects, they should also tell you about the withdrawal symptoms that might occur. For me it was very frustrating having all these things happening to my body and me not knowing what was going on. My symptoms were: sinus like problems, I was using Afrin constantly. I had weird feelings in my head, which I called brain pauses. But the worst was the sharp shooting pains in my thighs and legs, it was awful when I walked, but I began to have the pain while sitting also. My Dr. started me off with 225mg of effexor, but for the past month she has been reducing it slowly. I feel she should have warned me about the withdrawal symptoms. If anyone is experiencing the same or simular symptoms, I'd like to hear about it. Also maybe reading what happened to me, will help someone else and they wont be as frightened as I was. Not knowing is the worst part of it all.
Posted by Carlene on April 28, 2000, at 12:10:23
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
> Hi there,
>
> Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
>
> Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> to have a lot of success...
>
> please share your thoughts on this.Hi,
I've been on Effexor for a few monthes and it's working for
me. I still feel I'm too stressed, but nowhere
near how I felt without it. No side effects.
Posted by maggie on April 29, 2000, at 1:20:48
In reply to Re: withdrawal, posted by Rhonda on April 28, 2000, at 7:17:12
>Hi Ronda
I won't write my posting again, but scan back through this list and you will find similar problems with most people. I don't believe the doctors really know or pay attention to some of these side effects and withdrawal symptoms. There is lots to learn on this message board. I have enjoyed it a lot. Thanks everyone.
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