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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 51 to 75 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by Adam on August 11, 1999, at 16:49:09
In reply to Re: MAOI Type A or B?, posted by Elizabeth on August 11, 1999, at 13:33:13
Yeah, sorry! I tried to correct myself in my last post, but you're right, that
statement is incorrect.
> > This is all anecdotal, of course. I have seen nothing in the literature that clearly
> > demonstrates that a robust dopaminergic effect is of any real benefit in treating
> > depression.
>
> One word: nomifensine!
Posted by Adam on August 11, 1999, at 17:42:15
In reply to Selegeline doesn't do squat., posted by D.C on August 11, 1999, at 8:17:36
Hey, DC,
By saying "it doesn't do squat compared to the other MOII's", I'm assuming you mean it doesn't do squat for you. It might help other
people a great deal, though I have read in some places that selegiline seems to not have the mood-elevating power of the other MAOIs.
the folks I am working with at McLean seem to feel that it is a robust antidepressant, when used at the proper doses.
>
>
> It doesn't do squat compared to the other MAOI's. Yeah I've heard about all the supposed health benefits, intelligence boosting etc. It strikes me as rather odd. Ritalin is more likely to get your mind pumping from what I hear. I don't know though maybe it's just my own biochemistry. It would be nice though to get a drug that could boost your brain power. Anyone know of any?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Adam on August 15, 1999, at 18:32:27
In reply to Selegiline for depression?, posted by Brandon on May 10, 1999, at 23:07:11
For anyone who is curious:
I have been involved with the transdermal selegiline study for about 2 1/2 weeks now.
I have experienced no benefit whatsoever, and a slight decline in my mood. Side effects
seem to be minimal. I'm having a little trouble sleeping, but this has always been a
problem with me, and not that I'm off Remeron, I wouldn't expect to be sleeping as well.It may be that I'm on placebo. Time will tell.
> Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Annie on August 15, 1999, at 22:21:25
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?, posted by Adam on August 15, 1999, at 18:32:27
Hang in there Adam! I finished a patch study 8 days ago. I felt worse until week 5 or 6 and then it kicked in! I'm sorry the study is over. It was my first depression break in years.
Annie> For anyone who is curious:
>
> I have been involved with the transdermal selegiline study for about 2 1/2 weeks now.
> I have experienced no benefit whatsoever, and a slight decline in my mood. Side effects
> seem to be minimal. I'm having a little trouble sleeping, but this has always been a
> problem with me, and not that I'm off Remeron, I wouldn't expect to be sleeping as well.
>
> It may be that I'm on placebo. Time will tell.
>
>
>
> > Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Adam on August 16, 1999, at 17:02:35
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?Adam, posted by Annie on August 15, 1999, at 22:21:25
Hey, Annie,
I was wondering, what sort of side effects did you experience on
selegiline? I think I may be experiencing mild, um, difficulties.If that's all I get out of this, I'll be a dissappointed guy. I'll
try and hang in there, though. For the past couple months I've been
doing OK, if a bit anhedonic, and to have some real depressive symptoms
come back has been a frightening experience. One thing I hoped for
was this super-quick onset of antidepressant effect that the patch
system was supposed to deliver. If I'm on the drug, I'm not seeing it,
that's for damn sure. If I had to make a guess, this stuff might be
aggravating things. I wish I knew for sure.Ah, the joys of double-blinded clinical trials...the open label segment
is five weeks away. Yikes!> Hang in there Adam! I finished a patch study 8 days ago. I felt worse until week 5 or 6 and then it kicked in! I'm sorry the study is over. It was my first depression break in years.
> Annie
>
> > For anyone who is curious:
> >
> > I have been involved with the transdermal selegiline study for about 2 1/2 weeks now.
> > I have experienced no benefit whatsoever, and a slight decline in my mood. Side effects
> > seem to be minimal. I'm having a little trouble sleeping, but this has always been a
> > problem with me, and not that I'm off Remeron, I wouldn't expect to be sleeping as well.
> >
> > It may be that I'm on placebo. Time will tell.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Annie on August 16, 1999, at 22:07:01
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?Annie, posted by Adam on August 16, 1999, at 17:02:35
Adam
I was in the double blind study first (no improvement for me), then went into the open label 30mg. The initial symptoms were greatly increased anxiety and urinary urgency. I'd be in the middle of a sentence and suddenly have to run like mad to the closest 'facility'. Oh yes I had a little blurry vision. These went away and constipation was the only physical side effect and it wasn't horrible. My word retrieval on Selegiline was absolutely terrible. I couldn't remember the name of common objects. The good part was that my metabolism kicked in and I started to lose weight effortlessly. My reaction to stress improved dramatically and I stopped having suicidal ideations. My energy level increased but then seemed to level out. The anhedonia remained, but I felt like I was in heaven compared to where I had been for years. I hope they have a dosage higher than 30 mg because I would return to the patch in an instant if it were available now. I hope it is as good for you -or even better!
Annie> Hey, Annie,
>
> I was wondering, what sort of side effects did you experience on
> selegiline? I think I may be experiencing mild, um, difficulties.
>
> If that's all I get out of this, I'll be a dissappointed guy. I'll
> try and hang in there, though. For the past couple months I've been
> doing OK, if a bit anhedonic, and to have some real depressive symptoms
> come back has been a frightening experience. One thing I hoped for
> was this super-quick onset of antidepressant effect that the patch
> system was supposed to deliver. If I'm on the drug, I'm not seeing it,
> that's for damn sure. If I had to make a guess, this stuff might be
> aggravating things. I wish I knew for sure.
>
> Ah, the joys of double-blinded clinical trials...the open label segment
> is five weeks away. Yikes!
>
> > Hang in there Adam! I finished a patch study 8 days ago. I felt worse until week 5 or 6 and then it kicked in! I'm sorry the study is over. It was my first depression break in years.
> > Annie
> >
> > > For anyone who is curious:
> > >
> > > I have been involved with the transdermal selegiline study for about 2 1/2 weeks now.
> > > I have experienced no benefit whatsoever, and a slight decline in my mood. Side effects
> > > seem to be minimal. I'm having a little trouble sleeping, but this has always been a
> > > problem with me, and not that I'm off Remeron, I wouldn't expect to be sleeping as well.
> > >
> > > It may be that I'm on placebo. Time will tell.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Bones on August 17, 1999, at 12:12:10
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - an MAOI Type A?, posted by Adrian on August 8, 1999, at 5:18:43
> I tried Manerix for my OCD/Social Anxiety double combo. (What fun.) I was much brighter, and cognisant than with the SSRI's. It worked well for my social anxiety, I became more a "talker" than the "good listener" I've been. I liked it a lot. However, the lowered sensitivity to rejection that the SSRI's give wasn't enhanced. So I could speak clearer, wasn't shaky, but still ruminated about what people thought. (Bit of a bummer.) Gave me lots of energy too. Unfortunately, it didn't do wonders for my OCD - I had another bad bout when I was on it, and decided to come off. I would recommend anyone with Social Anxiety to give it a try.
Moclobemide has been available in Australia for some time. I have had much success in treating mild depression. The side effects are minimal at a dose of 300-450mg. Zoloft (or other SSRIs) such as Prozac had much greater side effects in comparison. It works for me.
>
>
> > > Has anyone taken Moclobemide (Manerix or Aurorix) with any success? I've read that the Type A's tend to deal more with mood elevation and (do I dare even suggest) "happiness."
> > >
> > > Does anyone else out there blow out their birthday candles or see the first star in the evening sky and wish for "happy" like I do?
> > >
> > > I was excited when I read about Moclobemide but had my bubble burst when my doctor wouldn't allow it because it's not approved in the US by the FDA.
Posted by Robin on August 17, 1999, at 12:51:41
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - an MAOI Type A?, posted by Bones on August 17, 1999, at 12:12:10
Has anyone tried both Parnate and selegiline? Can anyone compare these? I tried Marplan and hated it. It made me sleepy and I gained 8 pounds in one month. I am trying to decide which to try next of these 2 ADs.
Posted by dj on August 17, 1999, at 13:22:11
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - an MAOI Type A?, posted by Tom on August 8, 1999, at 19:26:34
Are Moclobemide & Manerix the same thing? Is it available in Canada? Is it useful for moderate to severe depression and if so in what dosages and what potential impacts??? Comments, insights, experiences, please....!!!
> Moclobemide has been available in Australia for some time. I have had much success in treating mild depression. The side effects are minimal at a dose of 300-450mg. Zoloft (or other SSRIs) such as Prozac had much greater side effects in comparison. It works for me.
> >
> >
> > > > Has anyone taken Moclobemide (Manerix or Aurorix) with any success? I've read that the Type A's tend to deal more with mood elevation and (do I dare even suggest) "happiness."
>
Posted by JohnL on August 18, 1999, at 2:36:44
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - ie. Manerix in Cda???, posted by dj on August 17, 1999, at 13:22:11
> Are Moclobemide & Manerix the same thing? Is it available in Canada? Is it useful for moderate to severe depression and if so in what dosages and what potential impacts??? Comments, insights, experiences, please....!!!
Yes. They are the same thing, different names. It is available in Canada. It is for all kinds of depressions. Effective dosages I believe begin at the 450mg range. My body didn't agree with it at all, which I think is rare, so can't comment much on experiences. I live in Maine, but got the prescrip in Montreal, and they can ship it to USA if the doc fills out special customs forms. Where do you live? JohnL.
Posted by dj on August 18, 1999, at 7:49:58
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - ie. Manerix in Cda???, posted by JohnL on August 18, 1999, at 2:36:44
Thanks for your comments JL. I'm in Vancouver.
Have you or do you take any SSRIs and if so what sort of reaction do you have to them???
> > I live in Maine, but got the prescrip in Montreal, and they can ship it to USA if the doc fills out special customs forms. Where do you live? JohnL.
Posted by Elizabeth on August 18, 1999, at 21:00:38
In reply to Parnate or selegiline?, posted by Robin on August 17, 1999, at 12:51:41
> Has anyone tried both Parnate and selegiline? Can anyone compare these? I tried Marplan and hated it. It made me sleepy and I gained 8 pounds in one month. I am trying to decide which to try next of these 2 ADs.
Selegiline caused more weight loss.
Parnate caused more cardiovascular effects (dizziness, transient elevations in BP, etc.).
Selegiline caused more insomnia and anxiety, while Parnate helped with anxiety.
Parnate worked, selegiline didn't.
I think that's it.
Posted by Robin on August 19, 1999, at 0:24:38
In reply to Re: Parnate or selegiline?, posted by Elizabeth on August 18, 1999, at 22:50:11
> > Has anyone tried both Parnate and selegiline? Can anyone compare these? I tried Marplan and hated it. It made me sleepy and I gained 8 pounds in one month. I am trying to decide which to try next of these 2 ADs.
>
> Selegiline caused more weight loss.
>
> Parnate caused more cardiovascular effects (dizziness, transient elevations in BP, etc.).
>
> Selegiline caused more insomnia and anxiety, while Parnate helped with anxiety.
>
> Parnate worked, selegiline didn't.
>
> I think that's it.Elizabeth, Thank you for the information. Could you tell me what dose of selegiline you were on?
Thank You Robin
Posted by Elizabeth on August 19, 1999, at 15:30:16
In reply to Re: Parnate or selegiline?, posted by Robin on August 19, 1999, at 0:24:38
> Elizabeth, Thank you for the information. Could you tell me what dose of selegiline you were on?
It was 40mg, and you're welcome.
Posted by Adam on August 22, 1999, at 18:38:33
In reply to Selegiline for depression?, posted by Brandon on May 10, 1999, at 23:07:11
I'm not superstitious, but I sure don't want to jinx this.
Anyway, I have had like five consecutive days that I have
felt unusually good. I don't know for sure if this is
connected to the selegiline patch or not. Having said
that, I am a knee-jerk skeptic, and I was quite convinced
up to this point that I was on the placebo. I may still
be. I don't know. If this change is connnected to the
drug, it has been quite abrubt. But hey, I'll take it.Wish me luck.
-Adam
> Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Adam on September 4, 1999, at 20:20:49
In reply to Selegiline for depression?, posted by Brandon on May 10, 1999, at 23:07:11
It has been a little over four weeks for me on the transdermal selegiline
study. As for the effects, or lack thereof, the drug has had on me, I have
some thoughts.I have had days and more prolonged periods where I have almost felt as good as did
after receiving ECT, which was unequivocably the best form of treatment I have
ever received for depression. (Of course, after a while, the effects of ECT faded.)I have since had days when I felt wretched, mostly in response to a bad recent event
in my life. I experienced depression as badly as I ever did. I was convinced
again that I must be on the placebo or that selegiline wasn't working for me.I have rebounded from these dark moments. The times that I rebounded I kept
telling myself "no doctor will come and wave a magic wand and make your cares
go away. Selegiline or no selegiline, you've got to fight, to bear the slings
and arrows of outrageous fortune, to reach very deep inside of yourself and find
a way to survive and grow and learn."This seemed to work. Maybe it's working because I'm responding to selegiline.
Maybe it's something more complex. I don't know.What I do know is that fighting depression is incredibly hard, but that I may be
winning. The key is to keep fighting, by any and all means. There are rewards, and
I wonder if my life will not end in some far off suicide after all.Well, like I said, just some thoughts.
> Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Kim on September 5, 1999, at 2:40:18
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?, posted by Adam on September 4, 1999, at 20:20:49
> It has been a little over four weeks for me on the transdermal selegiline
> study. As for the effects, or lack thereof, the drug has had on me, I have
> some thoughts.
>
> I have had days and more prolonged periods where I have almost felt as good as did
> after receiving ECT, which was unequivocably the best form of treatment I have
> ever received for depression. (Of course, after a while, the effects of ECT faded.)
>
> I have since had days when I felt wretched, mostly in response to a bad recent event
> in my life. I experienced depression as badly as I ever did. I was convinced
> again that I must be on the placebo or that selegiline wasn't working for me.
>
> I have rebounded from these dark moments. The times that I rebounded I kept
> telling myself "no doctor will come and wave a magic wand and make your cares
> go away. Selegiline or no selegiline, you've got to fight, to bear the slings
> and arrows of outrageous fortune, to reach very deep inside of yourself and find
> a way to survive and grow and learn."
>
> This seemed to work. Maybe it's working because I'm responding to selegiline.
> Maybe it's something more complex. I don't know.
>
> What I do know is that fighting depression is incredibly hard, but that I may be
> winning. The key is to keep fighting, by any and all means. There are rewards, and
> I wonder if my life will not end in some far off suicide after all.
>
> Well, like I said, just some thoughts.
>
>
>
> > Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.Adam,
Don't give up! All I want from an antidepressant right now is for it to give me the strength to fight. As long as you can find it in yourself to keep up the battle, you have to think the selegiline is helping. And you're helping the rest of us who just can't manage yet to think that maybe there is something out there that will help. After 35+ different medications, I need to believe that.
Kim
Posted by Adam on September 5, 1999, at 8:59:05
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?, posted by Kim on September 5, 1999, at 2:40:18
> Adam,
> Don't give up! All I want from an antidepressant right now is for it to give me the strength to fight. As long as you can find it in yourself to keep up the battle, you have to think the selegiline is helping. And you're helping the rest of us who just can't manage yet to think that maybe there is something out there that will help. After 35+ different medications, I need to believe that.
> KimHi, Kim,
More thoughts:
I honestly don't know if selegiline is helping me, or if I'm even on it at the moment. Either way, I have made a decision
not to wait for it to "kick in" before I try to feel better. Or maybe I'm deluding myself, and this inner strength and resolve
is a function of the drug. At any rate, I am struck again and again by the potency of the placebo effect in antidepressant
studies. There is no reason to believe that antidepressants do nothing, but there is plenty of reason to believe that in even
very severe cases, nothing works just as well. The recent hype over Merk's substance P reuptake inhibitor and the subsequent
letdown (and steep decline in Merk's stock!) when it turned out that the drug was not significantly better than placebo. There
is a great article in the April 9th issue of Science, I believe, discussing many issues surrounding the substance P dissapointment.What I take from this is that mere belief that you will get better can be enormously helpful. Where and upon what we place that
belief may be extremely important. I think many of the claims made about the efficacy of antidepressants are overblown, while
the significance of "placebo" is often downplayed or ignored. It should not be. It just may be that within every person is
something at least as powerful as Prozac and the key is to access that factor. You may not think you've got it in you, but
chances are you do.
Posted by Annie on September 5, 1999, at 21:24:26
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?, posted by Adam on September 5, 1999, at 8:59:05
> I honestly don't know if selegiline is helping me, or if I'm even on it at the moment. Either way, I have made a decision
> not to wait for it to "kick in" before I try to feel better. Or maybe I'm deluding myself, and this inner strength and resolve
> is a function of the drug. At any rate, I am struck again and again by the potency of the placebo effect in antidepressant
> studies. There is no reason to believe that antidepressants do nothing, but there is plenty of reason to believe that in even
> very severe cases, nothing works just as well. The recent hype over Merk's substance P reuptake inhibitor and the subsequent
> letdown (and steep decline in Merk's stock!) when it turned out that the drug was not significantly better than placebo. There
> is a great article in the April 9th issue of Science, I believe, discussing many issues surrounding the substance P dissapointment.
>
> What I take from this is that mere belief that you will get better can be enormously helpful. Where and upon what we place that
> belief may be extremely important. I think many of the claims made about the efficacy of antidepressants are overblown, while
> the significance of "placebo" is often downplayed or ignored. It should not be. It just may be that within every person is
> something at least as powerful as Prozac and the key is to access that factor. You may not think you've got it in you, but
> chances are you do.Adam,
I took part in the Substance P study. I experienced no improvement. I thought Merck shelved the whole idea, but was surprised to learn that a new Substance P study is now starting at a higher dose.
I've mentioned previously that I was in the Selegiline Patch study and I don't know if I was on Placebo or not. I experienced little relief until about the 5th week of the open label study (30 mg) and then it suddenly kicked in. Adam, that was the best I've felt in 6 years. It is worth waiting for! I wish you well.
Annie
Posted by Brad on September 7, 1999, at 6:09:47
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - ie. Manerix in Cda???, posted by dj on August 18, 1999, at 7:49:58
I've tried about 8 different anti-depressants, mostly SSRI's and with all of them I've experienced nightsweats so bad that I had to discontinue them.
I've started Manerix about 2 weeks ago and no nightsweats or other adverse side effects. No improvement in the depression either....but hopeful that will come. This is the first one where side effects haven't prevented me from continuing use.
I'm in Vancouver also.
Posted by JohnL on September 7, 1999, at 8:45:37
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - ie. Manerix in Cda???, posted by Brad on September 7, 1999, at 6:09:47
> I've tried about 8 different anti-depressants, mostly SSRI's and with all of them I've experienced nightsweats so bad that I had to discontinue them.
>
> I've started Manerix about 2 weeks ago and no nightsweats or other adverse side effects. No improvement in the depression either....but hopeful that will come. This is the first one where side effects haven't prevented me from continuing use.
>
> I'm in Vancouver also.Hi Brad. I live in Maine and went to Canada once to get Moclobemide. It is supposedly good for all kinds of depressions, with fewer side effects (as you've already noticed) than SSRIs or other MAOIs. It plunged me into a deep profound suicidal fall at just 75mg, so after 2 days was discontinued. I think that was a very rare reaction. Most people do very well with it. The Canadian doc was excellent. He said higher doses are best, even higher than max if needed. He also said nearly any other AD drug can be added to it in small quantities if needed. USA is missing out on a good drug. Glad you have the choice and you're off to a good start. Here's wishing your best days of the past are your worst days in the future. :) JohnL
Posted by Kim on September 13, 1999, at 1:09:21
In reply to Re: What about Moclobemide - ie. Manerix in Cda???, posted by Brad on September 7, 1999, at 6:09:47
> I've tried about 8 different anti-depressants, mostly SSRI's and with all of them I've experienced nightsweats so bad that I had to discontinue them.
>
> I've started Manerix about 2 weeks ago and no nightsweats or other adverse side effects. No improvement in the depression either....but hopeful that will come. This is the first one where side effects haven't prevented me from continuing use.
>
> I'm in Vancouver also.I'm in that OTHER Vancouver--Vancouver, Washington; although at this point I would be willing to drive to Canada for meds if it would help. My doctor here (psych MD) is really not supportive at all--actually causes me anxiety attacks to have to go see him for refills. How do you get an appointment with a dr. in Canada? Aren't they socialized medicine or something? (Forgive my ignorance . . .) Kim
Posted by Robin on September 28, 1999, at 9:41:48
In reply to Selegiline is great!, posted by Brandon on July 19, 1999, at 20:55:14
> Hey everyone,
>
> It's been about two months since I last posted my question about selegiline, I finally convinced my psydoc to let me try it...so far the results have been outstanding! I'm only taking 20mg a day and I definitely feel much better than I ever did. My level of concentration is way up and my mood is pretty darn good, and the best part is there is no pesky sexual side effects...my libido is actually enhanced! I just wanted to say thanks for all the info and was wondering if anyone here had tried the liquid form. I've heard that it is superior in it's lack of side effects, any info would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> BrandonBrandon, Are you still taking Selegiline? Is it still working for you? Are you still at 20mgs? How fast did you work up to 20mgs? I just started taking Selegiline yesterday (only 5mgs).
Thanks,
Posted by Adam on October 1, 1999, at 12:10:49
In reply to Selegiline for depression?, posted by Brandon on May 10, 1999, at 23:07:11
Well, today is the first day that I begin the open label portion of the transdermal selegiline
study. I am now guranteed a 20mg/patch dose of selegiline HCl for six months.Up to this point I have been dubious enough about selegiline's efficacy for me to wonder if in fact
I might be on the placebo, or, at least, I was in the low dose group (10mg patch). We'll see how
things go. I am noticing no side effects at all from a 20mg/patch dose. From the literature I have
read, in rats selegiline delivered through the skin reaches much higher blood level mg/kg than when
delivered orally, so even 20mg/patch ought to be a whopping effective dose of selegiline. I am
quite suprised by the absence of adverst effects, though I have been told this is not uncommon. I
guess I was hoping I might notice something (which would let me know unequivocably that I was on
a placebo all along and there's still hope I'll get a robust response to selegiline), but such is
not the case.> Has anyone heard of selegiline for depression. I have heard that it can be helpful.
Posted by Friend on October 4, 1999, at 9:23:54
In reply to Re: Selegiline for depression?, posted by Adam on October 1, 1999, at 12:10:49
Yes, I've heard of it being used for depression. Selegiline is an MAO inhibitor. MAO inhibitors can be classified in three ways: (1) Selective or non-selective (that is, it inhibits MAO-A or MAO-B, (2) reversible or non-reversible, and (3) chemical structure - hydrazine and non-hydrazine. Selegiline is non-reversible and a non-hydrazine. At ORAL dosage of less than 10-15 mg/day, it is a selective inhibitor of MAO-B. Inhibiting MAO-B enhances the supply of the neurotransmitter dopamine. At higher doses (ORAL doses above 10-15 mg/day, it loses its selectivity, and inhibits both MAO-A and MAO-B, thereby affecting other neurotransmitters, such as serotonin. My experience is that, unlike Parnate (which is also a non-selective, non-reversible, non-hydrazine MAO inhibitor) it does not cause sexual dysfunction, weight gain, orthostatic hypotention (dizziness upon rising due to lowering of blood pressure), dry mouth, daytime sleepiness, etc. I can't personally comment on its affect upon depression - I took it on the chance it might help my social phobia. I believe there is some additional information on its uses for depression in Dr. Ivan's depression central website.
Hope it works for you.
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