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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by [NONE] on September 3, 1999, at 10:26:45
I have a question for any doctor or neuroscience person
on this bulletin board. One of my good friends has, what
I thought were classic episodes of depression: social isolation,
unreal sadness, unable to function at work,etc..BUT he
also has had degenerative (over the last four months) short-term
memory loss, and difficulty reading. Regarding reading, he sees
and understands everything but he cannot seem to get the
thoughts on the page to 'settle' is his mind...for example,
he has to keep rereading a paragraph. He has also had
this same problem with simple mathematics. Is this common
with depression? He is an assistant U.S. Attorney & a very
smart guy. I would appreciate any help you could provide.
Thanks!
Posted by Pat on September 3, 1999, at 12:39:18
In reply to Reading & Memory Loss, posted by [NONE] on September 3, 1999, at 10:26:45
I am very interested in this subject, having suffered from like symptoms for some years now. I was in the top of my class in college, and now I can hardly read a book. My short term memory is so bad, I think it's kind of dangerous (driving, etc.). No treatment I have ever had for my depression has helped this problem. Can anyone help us learn something about this?
Posted by Yardena on September 3, 1999, at 17:50:20
In reply to Re: Reading & Memory Loss, posted by Pat on September 3, 1999, at 12:39:18
Are you experiencing excessive sleepiness? Or any other sleep problems?
Posted by Pat on September 3, 1999, at 19:45:53
In reply to Re: Reading & Memory Loss, posted by Yardena on September 3, 1999, at 17:50:20
> Are you experiencing excessive sleepiness? Or any other sleep problems?
Not now. When depression symptoms started some years ago, I had sleep problems (waking for hours and hours). I would still have sleep problems, except now I take ativan every night (used to take Triavil). Haven't slept without drugs for years.
Posted by Bob (not Dr.) on September 3, 1999, at 23:01:17
In reply to Re: Reading & Memory Loss, posted by Pat on September 3, 1999, at 19:45:53
Could this be a case of hippocampal atrophy?
(No, I really don't know what it is, but I ran across it the other day and it seems to be generating a number of studies on people with major depressive disorder).
Posted by Thumper on September 4, 1999, at 19:57:24
In reply to New buzz-topic?, posted by Bob (not Dr.) on September 3, 1999, at 23:01:17
Here's some reading on the topic for we uneducated consumer-types:
http://news-info.wustl.edu/feature/1996/July96-Depression.html
(it says I have a tiny seahorse in my brain..now that's comforting!)
Posted by Dee on September 4, 1999, at 22:20:46
In reply to Re: New buzz-topic?, posted by Thumper on September 4, 1999, at 19:57:24
> Here's some reading on the topic for we uneducated consumer-types:
>
> http://news-info.wustl.edu/feature/1996/July96-Depression.html
>
> (it says I have a tiny seahorse in my brain..now that's comforting!)Yeah, that's weird. Youd expect it would look something like a hippopotamus, not a sea horse ;-)
Posted by andrewb on September 5, 1999, at 1:14:16
In reply to Re: New buzz-topic?, posted by Dee on September 4, 1999, at 22:20:46
> > Here's some reading on the topic for we uneducated consumer-types:
> >
> > http://news-info.wustl.edu/feature/1996/July96-Depression.html
> >
> > (it says I have a tiny seahorse in my brain..now that's comforting!)
>
> Yeah, that's weird. Youd expect it would look something like a hippopotamus, not a sea horse ;-)Hippopotamus translates to river horse in greek! Hippocampus translates in greek to 'sea monster' and in myth refers to a sea horse with two front forefeet and a body ending with the tail of a dolphin or fish.
Posted by Noa on September 5, 1999, at 8:38:28
In reply to hippopotamus = seahorse, posted by andrewb on September 5, 1999, at 1:14:16
Andrew, you made my day. All this time I thought those fancy latin names for parts of our brains were so sophisticated!! They named the hippocampus after a sea monster because of its shape. Wow. I guess it makes sense. Shape was all they had to go on. They certainly didn't know what all those parts did. Tell us more about the nomenclature!
Posted by Ian on September 5, 1999, at 9:17:48
In reply to Re: hippopotamus = seahorse, posted by Noa on September 5, 1999, at 8:38:28
A few more for you, though I guess we're drifting off the point a bit
Vermis-worm (ridge down the middle of the cerebellum that looks like a worm)
Sustantia nigra- black stuff (part of the brainstem)
Globus pallidus-no prizes but its again part of the basal ganglia
Cerebrum-cerebration is thinking.
Cerebellum-the diminuitive of cerebrum.
Pons-bridge- briges the midbrain
Septum pellucidum-transparent septum
Dentate nucleus-tooth shaped nucleus
limbic system-limbus+border or edge hence limbo-bordering on hell.There probably isn't a part of the body whose specfic medical terminology is not derived from the greek or latin for simple things.
Having asthma and slight eczema I was intrested to find that panting and boiling were the respective words in Greek(boiling because of the blistering effect of the inflammatory exudates in the skin)
Tragus-greek for goat and medical name for the (sometimes) hairy bit at the front of the ear.
Fornix-part of the limbic system-means arch in latin. In ancient Rome prostitutes used to solicit under viaduct arches, hence fornication.better stop there for now
Ian
Posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 16:04:08
In reply to Re: hippopotamus = seahorse, posted by Ian on September 5, 1999, at 9:17:48
I think a great title for a book on, or a name for a website about,chronic depression, would be "The Shrunken Seahorse". I have been thinking about my poor little atrophied hippocampus ever since reading that article. Anyone know if it is possible to build it back up again? Or is the loss permanent?
Posted by Louise on September 6, 1999, at 17:51:41
In reply to Re: hippopotamus = seahorse, posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 16:04:08
> I think a great title for a book on, or a name for a website about,chronic depression, would be "The Shrunken Seahorse". I have been thinking about my poor little atrophied hippocampus ever since reading that article. Anyone know if it is possible to build it back up again? Or is the loss permanent?
I don't know about rebuilding your seahorse - but I just thought I'd tell you that I've just hand painted a seahorse onto ceramic tiles (about 8 tiles by 6) to put on my bathroom wall. It has taken me days so I suppose you could say that I've been rebuilding my seahorse. Perhaps you could include this as a therapy suggestion in your seahorse reconstruction chapter.......what, you haven't started your book yet, Yardena??
Louise
Posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 20:18:51
In reply to Re: hippopotamus = seahorse, posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 16:04:08
I wrote something about horses in the sea sometimes... I'll have to go and check my files:
Hear my back crack, heart shoots
a gazelle of blood into veins
again, again, againOn my chest I carry a load
like a treasure, or a child
that has not seen more of the worldWhere did rains fly
last night
Dark frame on wall
through which I watch
that which I can be no part of
suddenly still.There are horses that live in seas
clouds
cast iron mountains
They bring wings, sometimes
And winds
bring them back yesterdayI made a balloon of red paper
and walk slowly to a green field
where cows sometimes dance the springtime.
I sometimes dance like a cow.
---I'm really out of line posting that... Sorry. I just figured that since we're babbling about Sea horses...
Love and Peace
Dee
Posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 21:00:49
In reply to I've got a beautiful seahorse......., posted by Louise on September 6, 1999, at 17:51:41
I definitely see the begining of a great trend...just remember it started here at babble. Pretty soon we'll see seahorse-shaped designes on the back of cars (like the fish). Louise, were you planning to paint seahorses unrelated to the hippocampus, or was it related?
Posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 21:02:46
In reply to I've got a beautiful seahorse......., posted by Louise on September 6, 1999, at 17:51:41
How about this for a book--compile stories of a variety of people struggling with chronic depression.
No, I am not getting manic, it's just a fantasy. I think I am more into the title than the book.
Posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 21:24:33
In reply to The Shrunken Seahorse, posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 21:02:46
How about we all wear a little sea horse pin, as a discrete sign, so we can recognize a fellow depressed on the street ;-D
I just wrote elsewhere that I have to keep an eye on my manic gear... I guess this babble is an indicator.
Posted by yardena on September 6, 1999, at 22:09:11
In reply to Re: The Shrunken Seahorse, posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 21:24:33
Dee, we're having fun. Must it be mania?
Posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 22:13:30
In reply to Re: The Shrunken Seahorse, posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 21:24:33
I must be really bored to do thgis... I swear this is my last posting on this thread.
But, hey, check it out
http://homestead.juno.com/tapani/Hippocampus.html
Posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 22:20:18
In reply to Re: The Shrunken Seahorse, posted by yardena on September 6, 1999, at 22:09:11
You know what... You've got a point. I guess I am so used to feeling bad, that when I don't, I think there must be something wrong with me!
I just occurred to me that maybe a part of my depression is that I am not allowing myself to have a good time. Like it's something I have to feel guilty about.
I've got to think about that.
I'm glad you're here with me, Yardena.
Dee
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 7, 1999, at 2:42:14
In reply to Re: hippopotamus = seahorse, posted by Dee on September 6, 1999, at 20:18:51
> I wrote something about horses in the sea sometimes...
Wonderful!
One thing I should mention, my policy is that "submitting a message constitutes transfer of its copyright to me", but that's to allow me to reproduce it elsewhere. I consider it not to apply to creative writing. I think the writer should retain the copyright to that.
Bob
Posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 4:14:32
In reply to Re: creative writing, posted by Dr. Bob on September 7, 1999, at 2:42:14
Dr. Bob,
Are you really up at 2:42 AM working on the website????
Posted by Louise on September 7, 1999, at 4:18:23
In reply to Re: I've got a beautiful seahorse......., posted by Yardena on September 6, 1999, at 21:00:49
> I definitely see the begining of a great trend...just remember it started here at babble. Pretty soon we'll see seahorse-shaped designes on the back of cars (like the fish). Louise, were you planning to paint seahorses unrelated to the hippocampus, or was it related?
Well I have been studying brain anatomy recently but I must admit, I've always wanted an oceanic bathroom. The inspiration came from a ceramic seahorse shaped pull cord light switch. I now have shimmering sand and ocean blue walls, starfish, seahorses......but I have always had a seahorse 'thing'. A couple of people have commented that my seahorse looks fat. From the look of this thread, that seems like good news!Louise
Posted by Louise on September 7, 1999, at 4:29:53
In reply to Re: creative writing, posted by Dr. Bob on September 7, 1999, at 2:42:14
So leading on from the shrunken seahorse stuff - what happens if you're predominantly manic?
Does your seahorse expand? Does it get fat? Waht is the significance of having a fat seahorse? Does the fat seahorse really exist?
Why is it that if you've ever been manic you wonder whether you are every time you're just being plain silly??
Louise
Posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 5:36:16
In reply to Mania and fat seahorses, posted by Louise on September 7, 1999, at 4:29:53
Good questions, all, Louise. My guess is people who have depression with mania also have shrunken seahorses, because I think it is a result of cortisol hypersecretion over an extended period of time, and from what I have been reading, the cortisol thing is true for the ups and downs as well as the downs. Someone who know more about this, can you help???
I like that your seahorses are fat. Good robust seahorses, resisting the onslaugt of depressive disorders...
Posted by Bob (not Dr.) on September 7, 1999, at 9:57:08
In reply to Re: Mania and fat seahorses, posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 5:36:16
The place I found the info about HPA was at:
http://clinicalstudies.info.nih.gov/cgi/detail.cgi?A_98-M-0036.html
So, someone is at least checking into the
possibility of reversing the atrophy.Maybe art is a way of doing it. Who knows?
Apparently all the learning classicists are
right to some extent -- if you don't use it,
you lose it (so go out and exercise that brain
like the muscule it really is! =^P) Anyway, it
reminds me even more of how I've got to update
my web site ... I was hoping to start some web
ring or something (we have enough of those already)
that gathers art therapy related pages...not by
art therapists, but by those who use the web as
a medium for expressing what's going on in our
minds. Not necessarily places for catharsis or
for peer support, but more for educating everyone
else out there what it is like to have one of
these brain disorders.Anyway, if there's more interest in this, let's
start a new thread....Meanwhile, back to the original question:
All I know is that my IQ (as measured by
standardized tests) has dropped two
standard deviations from when I was
15 or so. Hippocampal atrophy? Maybe. Just another
effect of being depressed? Maybe again. Also in
the "All I know..." category is that my
cognitive functioning has varied considerably
from cocktail to cocktail. Thankfully, its near
a highpoint right now, but mostly on higher-
order stuff like synthetic reasoning. My short
term memory has gaping holes in it at the same
time. I just can't remember appointments and such--
I can hardly remember to write them down or to
check my calendar for what's up. (And my boss
can't seem to understand how such "simple" thing
is so easy to botch... grrrrrrrr.)Cheers,
Bob
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